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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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6 minutes ago, nikki-red said:

If you lose income due to isolating you can get help anyway.

My fear would be that offering money to everyone needing to isolate would just lead to some people being even more irresponsible in an actual attempt to catch it and therefore pocket £500.

Exactly, therefore stupidly risking death, overloading the health service and behaving like a lemming - but sadly they are out there.

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15 minutes ago, Mister M said:

In the last few days there has been a great deal of talk about these self isolation grants of £500

IIRC it followed neatly on from a public discussion about how the state of New York offered residents money and services (such as shopping and dog walking) so that those affected with the virus can stay at home for 2 weeks. Apparently in NY, there is a 90% compliance rate.

 

Sadly we know from this country that compliance with self isolation is anywhere between 11% (Why do so few Britons comply with a self-isolation order? | LSE COVID-19), or 18% (Only 18% of people self-isolate after developing coronavirus symptoms, UK study finds | The Independent)

 

A couple of days ago Matt Hancock 'flew the kite' that Britain could offer a similar scheme to New York.

 

Didn't go down well with the Treasury, who said it was too costly.

The Daily Mail were apoplectic with rage at the idea, claiming that it would lead to 'perverse incentives' for people to catch the virus so they could claim their £500. The Daily Mail reported on Hancock's idea in their usual way - Ministers eye astonishing plan to give EVERYONE testing positive for Covid a one-off payment of £500 | Daily Mail Online

 

Last night on Newsnight prominent backbencher Sir Geoffrey Clifton Brown expressed skepticism that offering such grants would be a bad idea as it would open the door to fraudulent claims. Similarly George Eustice said that the Government needed people to self isolate if they are contacted  by the official Test & Trace system 

 

I don't know whether it would work, whether the system would be scammed left, right and centre. Some definitely would try it on, doubt whether it would be that many though.

If people have the virus and have no support, can't the Government at least try to help by enabling marshalls or wardens to offer to do people's shopping? Is there a phone app that could use GPS so the person self isloating could prove that they are at home, or if not they would face a penalty or a fine???

 

 

My bold. 

 

But that's all it was, talk.  Based on a document someone has seen from the Govt's Policy Unit.  Just an idea someone suggested & now clearly dismissed. 

 

Ridiculous idea anyway.  Think of the additional administrative cost of running the scheme, including all the checks required to ensure that people weren't scamming the system to make quick money, much as in the same way that the furlough scheme has been scammed. 

 

It's an idea that's wide open to fraud. 

Edited by Baron99

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9 minutes ago, nikki-red said:

If you lose income due to isolating you can get help anyway.

 

The problem is that unless people have occupational sick pay, it's a risible amount and not easy to claim. It's even worse if you're in the gig (piece work) economy with no access to sick pay. These are the issues that unions like the GMB and IWGB have been campaigning organising around, and which have become even more pressing during Covid. We've become more reliant on delivery workers and the like during lockdowns, but their working conditions are often very poor.

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27 minutes ago, nikki-red said:

If you lose income due to isolating you can get help anyway.

My fear would be that offering money to everyone needing to isolate would just lead to some people being even more irresponsible in an actual attempt to catch it and therefore pocket £500.

I wonder what evidence there is of this based on the scheme offered in New York where people affected are offered money?

12 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

My bold. 

 

But that's all it was, talk.  Based on a document someone has seen from the Govt's Policy Unit.  Just an idea someone suggested & now clearly dismissed. 

 

Ridiculous idea anyway.  Think of the additional administrative cost of running the scheme, including all the checks required to ensure that people weren't scamming the system to make quick money, much as in the same way that the furlough scheme has been scammed. 

 

It's an idea that's wide open to fraud. 

So what can the authorities do to ensure those being identified as having Covid, & needing to self isolate do exactly that? As said earlier compliance rates are as low as 11%. 

Yes there are administrative costs - but how much has the test and trace system cost, and how effective is that?

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An increase in statutory sick pay from the current 90 odd quid a week would be a welcome boost for those having to self isolate. I lost approximately &600 when I had to and a work colleague has had to isolate twice because his wife and daughter tested positive at different times.

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Fortunately, my colleague and I are in a position where we didn't need to apply for help unlike a lot of others. He actually did apply for the &500 payment as a matter of principle but heard nothing back.

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Quote

If you’re eligible for either the Test and Trace Support Payment or a discretionary payment, you will receive the £500 payment on top of any benefits and Statutory Sick Pay that you currently receive.

 

Quote

You could be eligible for a £500 Test and Trace Support Payment if you live in England and meet all the following criteria:

 

you’ve been told to stay at home and self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace or the NHS COVID-19 app, either because you have tested positive for coronavirus or have recently been in close contact with someone who has tested positive

you’ve responded to messages received from NHS Test and Trace and have provided any legally required information

you’re employed or self-employed

you’re unable to work from home and will lose income as a result of self-isolating

you’re currently receiving or are the partner of someone in the same household who is receiving, at least one of the following benefits:

Universal Credit

Working Tax Credit

income-based Employment and Support Allowance

income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance

Income Support

Housing Benefit

Pension Credit

If you’re not on one of these benefits, you could be eligible for a £500 discretionary payment if all the following apply:

you meet all the other criteria listed above

you’re on a low income

you will face financial hardship as a result of self-isolating

 


 

From... https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/test-and-trace-support-payment-scheme-claiming-financial-support/claiming-financial-support-under-the-test-and-trace-support-payment-scheme

 

The scheme ends at the end of this month tho, and I personally think that anyone losing income should be able to claim something.

Edited by nikki-red

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18 minutes ago, Mister M said:

I wonder what evidence there is of this based on the scheme offered in New York where people affected are offered money?

So what can the authorities do to ensure those being identified as having Covid, & needing to self isolate do exactly that? As said earlier compliance rates are as low as 11%. 

Yes there are administrative costs - but how much has the test and trace system cost, and how effective is that?

Less carrot, more stick.  There's no evidence to suggest that those with the lack of civil duty wouldn't just pick up their £500 & then just go about there business.  The police around the country have already made it plain months ago that they had wouldn't be going round to people's accommodation, either those arriving in the UK or those 'pinged' by NHS test & trace app

 

It's merely unworkable, unless you basically strap an ankle tag to someone for a fortnight.  As much as I'd like every rule breaker to be financially punished, we've had nearly a year of this & we now know that without redeployment of police resources, sadly its not going to work.

 

We should be thankful that there are 89% of us who are sticking to the rules. 

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9 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Less carrot, more stick.  There's no evidence to suggest that those with the lack of civil duty wouldn't just pick up their £500 & then just go about there business.  The police around the country have already made it plain months ago that they had wouldn't be going round to people's accommodation, either those arriving in the UK or those 'pinged' by NHS test & trace app

 

It's merely unworkable, unless you basically strap an ankle tag to someone for a fortnight.  As much as I'd like every rule breaker to be financially punished, we've had nearly a year of this & we now know that without redeployment of police resources, sadly its not going to work.

 

We should be thankful that there are 89% of us who are sticking to the rules. 

But there aren't. 

According to the study I quoted above, it's 11% of the population are complying with the rules on self isolation, and 89% that are not. 

Granted there are studies which show compliance at 18%, and there may be studies which show compliance rates higher.

But still it's a pitifully low number.

And if the police aren't going to enforce it, who is?

Edited by Mister M

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I had to drive into town yesterday and it was quite busy with people and traffic. Nothing like the first lockdown, in fact except for mask wearing, you probably wouldn’t even notice much difference to pre pandemic days. On the bright side, at least for me, was there to collect a computer so my OH can finally work from home.

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3 hours ago, nikki-red said:

If you lose income due to isolating you can get help anyway.

My fear would be that offering money to everyone needing to isolate would just lead to some people being even more irresponsible in an actual attempt to catch it and therefore pocket £500.

I agree, but I can also see the point from RollingJ:

 

"Exactly, therefore stupidly risking death, overloading the health service and behaving like a lemming - but sadly they are out there.

 

(couldn't work out how to put 2 quotes in here after 5 or 6 attempts!

 

People accept that the older you are, the more vulnerable you are to bad outcomes if you catch the virus.  The older you are, surveys tells us that the more likely you are to agree to be vaccinated.

 

What we need to appreciate is that what follows is that the younger people are less likely to agree to be vaccinated, and are aware that they have little chance of bad outcomes to them if they catch the virus.   You can understand how many younger people want to work through the epidemic and take their chances. 

 

That £500 may mean some of them stay indoors if tested and proved to have Covid, and that can only be good news.  Would that be more than those who try to get Covid so they get the cash?  I've no idea how you would find that out.

 

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3 hours ago, nikki-red said:

If you lose income due to isolating you can get help anyway.

My fear would be that offering money to everyone needing to isolate would just lead to some people being even more irresponsible in an actual attempt to catch it and therefore pocket £500.

Are people that stupid/desperate?

 

Honest question. 

 

And further more, if it's something you can only claim for once, is it worth a go If it stops people going back to work spreading it?

3 hours ago, Baron99 said:

My bold. 

 

But that's all it was, talk.  Based on a document someone has seen from the Govt's Policy Unit.  Just an idea someone suggested & now clearly dismissed. 

 

Ridiculous idea anyway.  Think of the additional administrative cost of running the scheme, including all the checks required to ensure that people weren't scamming the system to make quick money, much as in the same way that the furlough scheme has been scammed. 

 

It's an idea that's wide open to fraud. 

Furlough is wide open to fraud and that's continuing.  

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