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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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2 hours ago, West 77 said:

I expect the British Prime Minister to carry on doing what is expected of a Prime Minister in normal times during the pandemic.  I don't have a problem whoever is Prime Minister carrying on doing duties and making journeys around the UK which someone who is not Prime Minister would be judged as non essential.  To be quite frank the media, political opponents and the social media users  are an embarrassment when they target Boris Johnson for criticism for carrying out day to day duties.

BJ ought to be setting an example. This kind of thing sends out mixed messages.

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10 hours ago, nightrider said:

 

The risk of transmission outside is extremely low. I doubt that is what is driving the pandemic. No point focussing on people going for a walk in the countryside - makes a nice headline, but won't stop the virus spreading which is mostly caused by indoors settings. As others have said far to many companies think their workers are key workers. Perhaps because financial support for shutting down is not good enough?

Absolutely.  This obsession with how far can you go for a bike ride, what's local and what isn't, whether or not it's OK to drive somewhere to go for a walk - it's such a red herring.  It takes the focus away from behaviours that really do constitute transmission risks.

 

I also worry that if people think they might get into trouble meeting a friend for a walk, they might be more tempted to meet up indoors. Even people meeting in legitimate bubbles are better off doing this outdoors if they can.

Edited by Olive

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All this "You must stay local" is a bit vague.  Relatives of mine in the Irish Republic tell me that they are only allowed to travel 5km from home, unless the journey is covered by their low number of exceptions. 

 

Simple.  You have a defined distance that everyone, citizens, police are clear about. 

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1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

All this "You must stay local" is a bit vague.  Relatives of mine in the Irish Republic tell me that they are only allowed to travel 5km from home, unless the journey is covered by their low number of exceptions. 

 

Simple.  You have a defined distance that everyone, citizens, police are clear about. 

In France, we were only allowed 1km from our home for exercise. Glad we live in the countryside, must have been pretty awful for people living in cities.

 

 

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12 hours ago, nightrider said:

The risk of transmission outside is extremely low. I doubt that is what is driving the pandemic. No point focussing on people going for a walk in the countryside - makes a nice headline, but won't stop the virus spreading which is mostly caused by indoors settings....

Let's look at this another way.

The pub trade supposedly spent circa £500m by all accounts getting their premises "covid safe". But they're shut, so you can rule them out as culprits.

Cinemas, theatres, restaurants no doubt spent copious amounts to ensure they matched the then-demanded protection levels. But they're also shut, so we can rule them out as well.

Non-essential businesses are (supposedly) all closed. Covid safe or not, they're shut.

All the supermarket chains - "forced" to remain open since day one - claim they are "covid safe". Some even have a traffic light system to regulate numbers, and from today - mayhap 9 months overdue? - are querying people who turn up without face coverings.

Any business premises that are allowed to remain open make the same claim, for staff and customers. I've even seen a staff car park where new signs sprang up asking staff to reverse only into the parking bays, so making the drivers a car width apart - 2 metres-ish - if a few happen to turn up at the same time.

We're told that schooling is safe, for pupils and staff. They are also "covid secure".

Have I missed anyone?

 

You say the virus is spreading by/in "indoor settings".

So how is it there?

It's "getting in" somehow!

If we discount all the above as guilty parties, it really boils down to just "us".

Us, walking around? Us, exercising?

We're told not to visit other homes. Personally, we've had no visitors for months. Nor have we been tempted to visit anyone else.

Can't speak for you, of course... Might it be you?!

Could it be the panting, sweating jogger that narrowly avoids you on the pavement?

The wheezing runner who stops every few yards to check the time on his upper-arm gadget?

The bloke in lycra on his bike, dressed pretending he's a Team Sky-or-whatever rider?

The couple walking their labrador on the other side of the road who bid you a cheery 'hello'?

Perhaps the "you're OK as long as you're meeting/chatting for less than 15 minutes" is plain wrong.

 

If we are all truly behaving ourselves at home, we can only be picking it up.... outside?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I see they are transferring elderly people from hospital into care homes again to free up beds. 

 

Why?

 

Surely they could be transferred to the Nightingale hospitals if they are not being used much, or better still, empty hotels reserved for recovering covid patients' convalescence. They need rest and recuperation until they are well enough to return home, but putting them together with old and vulnerable people in care homes seems like a repeat of last year's  care home disaster. 

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7 hours ago, RiffRaff said:

Let's look at this another way.

The pub trade supposedly spent circa £500m by all accounts getting their premises "covid safe". But they're shut, so you can rule them out as culprits.

Cinemas, theatres, restaurants no doubt spent copious amounts to ensure they matched the then-demanded protection levels. But they're also shut, so we can rule them out as well.

Non-essential businesses are (supposedly) all closed. Covid safe or not, they're shut.

All the supermarket chains - "forced" to remain open since day one - claim they are "covid safe". Some even have a traffic light system to regulate numbers, and from today - mayhap 9 months overdue? - are querying people who turn up without face coverings.

Any business premises that are allowed to remain open make the same claim, for staff and customers. I've even seen a staff car park where new signs sprang up asking staff to reverse only into the parking bays, so making the drivers a car width apart - 2 metres-ish - if a few happen to turn up at the same time.

We're told that schooling is safe, for pupils and staff. They are also "covid secure".

Have I missed anyone?

 

You say the virus is spreading by/in "indoor settings".

So how is it there?

It's "getting in" somehow!

If we discount all the above as guilty parties, it really boils down to just "us".

Us, walking around? Us, exercising?

We're told not to visit other homes. Personally, we've had no visitors for months. Nor have we been tempted to visit anyone else.

Can't speak for you, of course... Might it be you?!

Could it be the panting, sweating jogger that narrowly avoids you on the pavement?

The wheezing runner who stops every few yards to check the time on his upper-arm gadget?

The bloke in lycra on his bike, dressed pretending he's a Team Sky-or-whatever rider?

The couple walking their labrador on the other side of the road who bid you a cheery 'hello'?

Perhaps the "you're OK as long as you're meeting/chatting for less than 15 minutes" is plain wrong.

 

If we are all truly behaving ourselves at home, we can only be picking it up.... outside?

 

 

 

 

 

 

No that isn’t how it being spread. That’s not just my opinion; it has been stated by many scientists and Chris Whitty said the same the other day. I have suspicions that all the debate about limits of exercise and going for walk with a friend having a coffee is all a bit of a distraction from schools being kept open when they were advised by scientists to shut them, mixing at Christmas, borders and quarantine, failure of test and trace (i.e. just some the real reasons for the current nightmare)

If covid really did spread easily from fleeting outdoor contact, then it would be running far, far more rampant than it already is and indoor contact wouldn’t be safe without full PPE (not just a thin cloth mask). 

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11 hours ago, Baron99 said:

All this "You must stay local" is a bit vague.  Relatives of mine in the Irish Republic tell me that they are only allowed to travel 5km from home, unless the journey is covered by their low number of exceptions. 

 

Simple.  You have a defined distance that everyone, citizens, police are clear about. 

How do you define 5 km. A circle strictly centred on the home? Or how far you need to drive along the road? If the former can you drive out of the circle if thats the only way to access some other point within the circle? Nothing is simple!

9 hours ago, RiffRaff said:

Let's look at this another way.

The pub trade supposedly spent circa £500m by all accounts getting their premises "covid safe". But they're shut, so you can rule them out as culprits.

Cinemas, theatres, restaurants no doubt spent copious amounts to ensure they matched the then-demanded protection levels. But they're also shut, so we can rule them out as well.

Non-essential businesses are (supposedly) all closed. Covid safe or not, they're shut.

All the supermarket chains - "forced" to remain open since day one - claim they are "covid safe". Some even have a traffic light system to regulate numbers, and from today - mayhap 9 months overdue? - are querying people who turn up without face coverings.

Any business premises that are allowed to remain open make the same claim, for staff and customers. I've even seen a staff car park where new signs sprang up asking staff to reverse only into the parking bays, so making the drivers a car width apart - 2 metres-ish - if a few happen to turn up at the same time.

We're told that schooling is safe, for pupils and staff. They are also "covid secure".

Have I missed anyone?

 

You say the virus is spreading by/in "indoor settings".

So how is it there?

It's "getting in" somehow!

If we discount all the above as guilty parties, it really boils down to just "us".

Us, walking around? Us, exercising?

We're told not to visit other homes. Personally, we've had no visitors for months. Nor have we been tempted to visit anyone else.

Can't speak for you, of course... Might it be you?!

Could it be the panting, sweating jogger that narrowly avoids you on the pavement?

The wheezing runner who stops every few yards to check the time on his upper-arm gadget?

The bloke in lycra on his bike, dressed pretending he's a Team Sky-or-whatever rider?

The couple walking their labrador on the other side of the road who bid you a cheery 'hello'?

Perhaps the "you're OK as long as you're meeting/chatting for less than 15 minutes" is plain wrong.

 

If we are all truly behaving ourselves at home, we can only be picking it up.... outside?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its not spreading from people exercising outside.

 

Just go to your local high street and see how many premises think they are essential...is a coffee shop really essential retail? There is an invention called a thermos.

 

Schools all open and many at 50% occupancy....

 

Lots of households having visitors indoors...

 

 

 

1 hour ago, redruby said:

No that isn’t how it being spread. That’s not just my opinion; it has been stated by many scientists and Chris Whitty said the same the other day. I have suspicions that all the debate about limits of exercise and going for walk with a friend having a coffee is all a bit of a distraction from schools being kept open when they were advised by scientists to shut them, mixing at Christmas, borders and quarantine, failure of test and trace (i.e. just some the real reasons for the current nightmare)

 

Bingo. They have managed to get everyone at each others throats over how far you can go for exercise, whilst no-one is talking about the lack of measures from the government to shut down indoor settings. 

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8 hours ago, Anna B said:

I see they are transferring elderly people from hospital into care homes again to free up beds. 

 

Why?

 

Surely they could be transferred to the Nightingale hospitals if they are not being used much, or better still, empty hotels reserved for recovering covid patients' convalescence. They need rest and recuperation until they are well enough to return home, but putting them together with old and vulnerable people in care homes seems like a repeat of last year's  care home disaster. 

We don't have any staff for the nightingales. We do have staff in care homes. Perhaps that is the reason.

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1 hour ago, nightrider said:

How do you define 5 km. A circle strictly centred on the home? Or how far you need to drive along the road? If the former can you drive out of the circle if thats the only way to access some other point within the circle? Nothing is simple!

Its not spreading from people exercising outside.

 

Just go to your local high street and see how many premises think they are essential...is a coffee shop really essential retail? There is an invention called a thermos.

 

Schools all open and many at 50% occupancy....

 

Lots of households having visitors indoors...

 

 

 

Bingo. They have managed to get everyone at each others throats over how far you can go for exercise, whilst no-one is talking about the lack of measures from the government to shut down indoor settings. 

Humberside Police, on the other hand are showing that when necessary they can think things through to reach sensible solutions.  They have announced that they will not be taking draconian measures agains people travelling for exercise, but will speak to people they believe have stretched the guidance too far.   No need for heavy handed tactics like other forces have tried, which has only made things worse.   Travelling for exercise isn't a big issue after all.

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10 hours ago, Anna B said:

I see they are transferring elderly people from hospital into care homes again to free up beds. 

 

Why?

 

Surely they could be transferred to the Nightingale hospitals if they are not being used much, or better still, empty hotels reserved for recovering covid patients' convalescence. They need rest and recuperation until they are well enough to return home, but putting them together with old and vulnerable people in care homes seems like a repeat of last year's  care home disaster. 

No staff for nightingale hospitals. Care homes have staff. And great swathes of care home staff and residents have been vaccinated.

 

 

The other reason it's spreading - even at "covid safe" workplaces is when some people have to isolate, they can't afford to and go to work anyway.

Edited by tinfoilhat

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5 hours ago, nightrider said:

Its not spreading from people exercising outside.

 

Just go to your local high street and see how many premises think they are essential...is a coffee shop really essential retail? There is an invention called a thermos.

 

Schools all open and many at 50% occupancy....

 

Lots of households having visitors indoors...

If that's the case, police time would be as well spent shutting said coffee shop - and non-essential businesses - down.

Schools are supposedly covid safe.  The school authorities claim it. Are they all kidding themselves? Fibbing then, perhaps.

We've had no visitors to our house since day one. Likewise, we've not entered anybody else's. In fact, I personally don't know of anybody who has, or admits to it.

On the latest figures showing that perhaps 1 in 50 are carriers, and from the daily rise in cases and admissions, your logic would lean towards literally thousands of households having visitors indoors?

 

 

 

 

Edited by RiffRaff

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