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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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2 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

So, there's going to be a copper on every street corner? Otherwise, how is that going to work - seriously ? Media hype, again.

How it is likely going to work is- 

 

remember the first lockdown where some police forces went well over the top and, for example, harrassed people simply going for a walk in the country, alone? [plus posting drone videos on the forces twitter account]. And how said forces were instructed by rational superiors to cease such actions?

 

It looks like they are now being given carte blanche to restart that kind of behaviour, and, get away with it.

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Sounds like the lawyers are going to have a field day.    Maybe it's all intentional to get at least one industry booming again.

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1 minute ago, onewheeldave said:

How it is likely going to work is- 

 

remember the first lockdown where some police forces went well over the top and, for example, harrassed people simply going for a walk in the country, alone? [plus posting drone videos on the forces twitter account]. And how said forces were instructed by rational superiors to cease such actions?

 

It looks like they are now being given carte blanche to restart that kind of behaviour, and, get away with it.

Well, I remember walking to Archer Road from home around the start of that time, and the only police I saw were a group of 8 of them - not practising any social distancing at all - who I walked past, said 'Hello, having a nice rest?' and just got a few laughs, no question of where I was from/going to or anything. They were all on 'trials' type motorbikes too.

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1 minute ago, ECCOnoob said:

Sounds like the lawyers are going to have a field day.    Maybe it's all intentional to get at least one industry booming again.

Make the rules clearer for starters. Stay local? What does that mean? Ireland it's something like 5km from your front door. If I stayed in the 0114 dialing area I could be anywhere from killamarsh to Stocksbridge. 

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Just now, tinfoilhat said:

Make the rules clearer for starters. Stay local? What does that mean? Ireland it's something like 5km from your front door. If I stayed in the 0114 dialing area I could be anywhere from killamarsh to Stocksbridge. 

So what do you want them to do?  

 

It is already been clearly expressed that people should stay local, only travel when it's essential for work, shopping or caring responsibilities  and people should not be crossing into other tier areas. How more specific can you be? 

 

If you start blanket putting distances on things such as nobody can go outside a mile from their home that means different things to different people. It will be all well and good having a rule like that but what if people don't have a Shop within a mile distance?  What if their  supermarket is 5, 10, 20 miles away?

 

If you nominated a specific single place where people are only allowed to get food from how is that going to work in terms of fairly allocating the numbers? or capacity? or or even practicalities for those who might not drive etc??

 

Goodness sake I know ambiguity can always be a risk but there has to be some elements of flexibility and basic common sense.  

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Just now, ECCOnoob said:

So what do you want them to do?  

 

It is already been clearly expressed that people should stay local, only travel when it's essential for work, shopping or caring responsibilities  and people should not be crossing into other tier areas. How more specific can you be? 

 

If you start blanket putting distances on things such as nobody can go outside a mile from their home that means different things to different people. It will be all well and good having a rule like that but what if people don't have a Shop within a mile distance?  What if their  supermarket is 5, 10, 20 miles away?

 

If you nominated a specific single place where people are only allowed to get food from how is that going to work in terms of fairly allocating the numbers? or capacity? or or even practicalities for those who might not drive etc??

 

Goodness sake I know ambiguity can always be a risk but there has to be some elements of flexibility and basic common sense.  

How can a mile from home mean different things to different people unless youve got 20 acres of land? In Ireland that's for exercise by the way.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

How can a mile from home mean different things to different people unless youve got 20 acres of land? In Ireland that's for exercise by the way.

 

 

Jacob Rees-Mogg would probably like the restrictions to be expressed in rods or furlongs.

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2 hours ago, Becky B said:

Listening to a medical programme about this earlier, one of the experts said if anything, this lockdown should be stricter than the first because the new variant is 50% more transmissible.

The problem with that is there is no evidence at all to prove that it is 50% more transmissible. The only way to know the numbers is to do a genome test on all to see just how many have the new variant. The rise of cases could just be down to people being lax now vaccines have been created.

Edited by apelike

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3 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

I have heard quite a few scientists and experts in the papers demanding the lockdown should be much stricter. I would like to hear how exactly these experts realistically think that can happen.

 

The country is already into tier five.  A blanket national lockdown for several weeks. All non-essential retailers, eat in hospitality, hotels, schools, offices.... are all closed with remote working arrangements or no business at all.

There are entire Industries teetering on the brink of collapse with the government desperately trying to the balance enough of our finite taxpayer money for either furlough wage to the staff temporarily or makeup a business loss in other ways through grants or other support schemes.

 

Police are now freely able to stop, question and and punish those who are undertaking unnecessary travel or mixing against the rules.

 

However, it is obvious that some people have to go outside to work to keep things moving and such work cannot be done sat in their pants in their living room.  We still need great numbers of people out there doing those essential things like keeping the lights switched on, telecommunications running, the Health Service operating, broadcast services on the air, policing and emergency response available, public transport operating.... 

 

Then of course there's those Great British Public at home.  They still need supplies and to eat, so at the very very least major supermarkets have to be open (yes whilst places like Poundland, Wilko or take away fast-food etc may be a bit debatable - if they still feed and water people they are generally going to fall within the rules). So. That means all these retail staff have to go out to work..... Those stores don't magically stock themselves and need suppliers and deliveries and warehousing. That means that there are 1000s more people going to work in haulage.....Those hauliers on the road need to eat and sleep and therefore service stations and canteens have to be open and operating.... Hauliers need suppliers and manufacturs so every factory and distributor and producer also has to remain open with staff flowing in and out...

 

Its an endless cycle and these experts and statisticians need to get a grip and realise that humans cannot simply press pause and go into hibernation for 6-months.

 

It's all so easy to go on television or make statements in newspapers about how everything needs to be quicker, faster, stricter,harder. It's all so easy to start finger pointing about behaviour of the general public and failures of the government when they are not the ones who actually have to balance practical reality with idealistic proposals.

 

The world doesn't stop turning.  

It's getting caught between a rock and a hard place, I know.  I guess people with a medical bias are looking at it from a point of view of hospitals being overwhelmed by numbers of people needing admission, whilst trying to balance keeping emergency services and more routine healthcare going.

We've all come to expect healthcare to be available when we want it, but it is a finite resource and if most of the capacity is taken up by Covid-19 cases, where does that leave us?

 

We can't go into hibernation, no (much as I feel I want to, and not just in a pandemic 😆), but we can be careful about the choices we make in this unprecedented situation.  The virus spreads by contacts, the more contacts each person has with numbers of different people, the more likely it is to spread.

1 hour ago, apelike said:

The problem with that is there is no evidence at all to prove that it is 50% more transmissible. The only way to know the numbers is to do a genome test on all to see just how many have the new variant. The rise of cases could just be down to people being lax now vaccines have been created.

I haven't seen the research behind it, I'm getting to the point where I can only take so much information in about it, and manage my mental health.

We thought we were going to get a respite in the later stages of 2020, but things are just as bad as ever (this is just my limited perspective at work,  but being in it day after day is getting a little wearing now).

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The Government is offering the vaccine to the over 80's, those "shielding" most at risk, and HNS workers first, and that will allow deaths, serious illness and hospital admissions to fall, allowing us to go back to normality.  That makes sense, as the vast majority of deaths/hospital admissions are in those categories.  There are many people who testing has shown have had the virus, produced antibodies and beaten it - often without even knowing they had it.

 

The hope of a return to normal is being held out to businesses and the public, and an optimistic picture is being painted of the speed of the rollout and a return to normality.

 

A problem as I see it is that the Government keeps announcing how many doses of vaccine they have bought, and that keeps rising and rising.  "The Scotsman" last week reported that the UK Government had already acquired 355 million doses of vaccine. 

 

https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-how-many-doses-oxford-and-pfizer-jabs-does-uk-have-and-how-long-will-it-take-vaccinate-everyone-3084941

 

The UK head-count is around 68 million.

 

Unless there is something else they can do with this vaccine lake, or they are planning to donate it to poorer countries, I think we will all be offered, then coerced, or forced to have the jabs, whether we want or need them or not.

 

I appreciate that most of us would accept a jab, but not all of us.  It's a slippery slope if the Government were to force everybody to do something.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said:

The Government is offering the vaccine to the over 80's, those "shielding" most at risk, and HNS workers first, and that will allow deaths, serious illness and hospital admissions to fall, allowing us to go back to normality.  That makes sense, as the vast majority of deaths/hospital admissions are in those categories.  There are many people who testing has shown have had the virus, produced antibodies and beaten it - often without even knowing they had it.

 

The hope of a return to normal is being held out to businesses and the public, and an optimistic picture is being painted of the speed of the rollout and a return to normality.

 

A problem as I see it is that the Government keeps announcing how many doses of vaccine they have bought, and that keeps rising and rising.  "The Scotsman" last week reported that the UK Government had already acquired 355 million doses of vaccine. 

 

https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-how-many-doses-oxford-and-pfizer-jabs-does-uk-have-and-how-long-will-it-take-vaccinate-everyone-3084941

 

The UK head-count is around 68 million.

 

Unless there is something else they can do with this vaccine lake, or they are planning to donate it to poorer countries, I think we will all be offered, then coerced, or forced to have the jabs, whether we want or need them or not.

 

I appreciate that most of us would accept a jab, but not all of us.  It's a slippery slope if the Government were to force everybody to do something.

 

 

Just a small point but Sheffield is currently vaccinating everyone over 75. My Mum was done last Thursday and is 79 with no pre-existing health conditions.

I’m 46 and fit and healthy having exercised 4-5 times a week for the last 30 years, dying from Covid doesn’t particularly worry me as I know the stats are in my favour. However, long Covid does worry me as I know a few people younger than myself who are suffering from it.

Their symptoms vary from no sense of taste or smell 8 months after the original infection to severe lethargy similar to an ME sufferer.

Until vaccinated I won’t look to return to normal and many friends are of the same view, for the sake of a few months I don’t see the point in risking it.

I don’t think anyone will be forced to be vaccinated but businesses will rightly take precautions as dictated by the science to keep staff and customers safe. For example, I can see a situation where you cannot fly without proof of vaccination, or certain countries may ban travellers for the same reason.

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1 hour ago, Westie1889 said:

Just a small point but Sheffield is currently vaccinating everyone over 75. My Mum was done last Thursday and is 79 with no pre-existing health conditions.

I’m 46 and fit and healthy having exercised 4-5 times a week for the last 30 years, dying from Covid doesn’t particularly worry me as I know the stats are in my favour. However, long Covid does worry me as I know a few people younger than myself who are suffering from it.

Their symptoms vary from no sense of taste or smell 8 months after the original infection to severe lethargy similar to an ME sufferer.

Until vaccinated I won’t look to return to normal and many friends are of the same view, for the sake of a few months I don’t see the point in risking it.

I don’t think anyone will be forced to be vaccinated but businesses will rightly take precautions as dictated by the science to keep staff and customers safe. For example, I can see a situation where you cannot fly without proof of vaccination, or certain countries may ban travellers for the same reason.

They already insist on vaccinations for different diseases.

Edited by tinfoilhat

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