Coronavirus - Part Two.

[nikki-red 307]

40 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said:

Given the UK population is estimated at 68million, and around 75% would agree to take the vaccine, that's only around 7 doses each assuming that ALL the vaccines ordered work AND pass all the tests that the Government's regulatory bodies put them through AND there is no wastage (if its thawed out and not used within a few minutes, it has to be thrown).  Methinks we're not going to have enough, even for the elderly and HNS front-line staff .

 

The cost of getting it - no idea.  The cost of not ordering it may be measured in lives.

The 68 million population includes babies and small children, would they be expected to have the vaccine?

[Pettytom 1]

3 minutes ago, nikki-red said:

The 68 million population includes babies and small children, would they be expected to have the vaccine?

I guess that depends on the aim of the vaccination programme . If they are aiming to control the virus and protect the vulnerable, then kids won’t need vaccinating. If eradication is the aim, then everyone will need it ultimately.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Pettytom

[RiffRaff 10]

48 minutes ago, El Cid said:

On the radio it said some cost £10 each, where as others cost £4/£5 each

Ye Gods.

Frightening.

[Becky B 31]

8 hours ago, petemcewan said:

Becky B.

Read the Lancet Article carefully. Danny Altman is out on his own and it's an opinion he is expressing.

Vaccination is not compromised .

With respect,I suggest you read up on the part played by T-cells in the immune system-and how the mRNA vaccine stimulates both Cell Mediated Immunity and Humoral Immunity.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2019.00594/full

There's a lot of mischief yet to be generated around the efficacy and effectiveness of  the mRNA vaccine  for Cov-19 and it won't just be anti-vaxers  stepping up to the Oche.

Hmm.  The main conclusion I got from that article was that there already appears to be more than one strain of the virus, even after only a few months of its transmission to humans.

That's already an issue with 'flu vaccination - choosing which strains need to be in the vaccine each year.

It was only a single case study though.

 

I'd just happened to have heard Altman this morning, it was who the BBC chose to quote in the news report. I guess Johnson needs to be seen to be following his government's advice and setting an example!

 

I had a bit of a sort out of all my old uni notes during the first lockdown.  I think I might have kept the immunology notes though 🤣

[altus 538]

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

Just heard on news that making the vaccine mandatory is being discussed.

Not too sure about that.... there are quite a lot of people against it.

That's easy enough to solve. Give everyone who has a vaccination an "I've been vaccinated" card. No card = no pubs, no restaurants, no cinema/theatre/concerts/etc., no holidays, no visiting hospitals or care homes, wear a mask those places you are allowed to go, unvaccinated kids go to video school, etc. All with appropriate fines for those who break the rules (and exemptions for those who can't be vaccinated for clinical reasons).

 

Anybody who is reluctant to get vaccinated because they are worried about the health implications of how quickly they have been approved will presumably be happy, also for health reasons, to stay in lockdown until they feel the vaccines are safe enough for them to get vaccinated. Anybody who's genuinely anti-vax needs to be prevented from harming the public.

 

At some point in the future, when enough of the population have been vaccinated to provably provide herd immunity, then those restrictions could be lifted.

[El Cid 214]

2 hours ago, Pettytom said:

I guess that depends on the aim of the vaccination programme . If they are aiming to control the virus and protect the vulnerable, then kids won’t need vaccinating. If eradication is the aim, then everyone will need it ultimately.

Same as the flu vaccine, free to NHS, some key workers and the vulnerable, or anyone can buy it from Asda/boots.

That would be less than 20 million?

Only 70% of over 65s have the flu vaccine.

[El Cid 214]

I wonder how true these claims of 90%/95% effective are?

 

While vaccine effectiveness (VE) can vary, recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine. When there is a mis-match with the vaccine and the type of flu, the effectiveness is very, very low.

[catmiss 12]

I’m aware of all the discussion around the vaccines and wouldn’t want to see it made mandatory in a free society. I’m also aware that it may not prevent the spread of Covid but could prevent symptoms. Once approved, I would be eagerly awaiting my call for vaccination. My health condition puts me in the ‘extremely clinically vulnerable to Covid’ category and have consequently been following advice to ‘shield’ for most of the last 8 months. The way I see it the risk of Covid killing or severely debilitating me far outweighs the risk of any vaccine. Having the vaccine would put me in the same position as the majority.

Edited November 17, 2020 by catmiss
Typo

[Thirsty Relic 210]

3 minutes ago, catmiss said:

I’m aware of all the discussion around the vaccines and wouldn’t want to see it made mandatory in a free society. I’m also aware that it may not prevent the spread of Covid but could prevent symptoms. Once approved, I would be eagerly awaiting my call for vaccination. My health condition puts me in the ‘extremely clinically vulnerable to Covid’ category and have consequently been following advice to ‘shield’ for most of the last 8 months. The way I see it the risk of Covid killing or severely debilitating me far outweighs the risk of any vaccine. Having the vaccine would put me in the same position as the majority.

I hope you are in the first cohort to get it, and in your position, I would also want it.  I'm getting by, and trying to get my head around it all, while protecting myself and others close to me the best I can.  Decisions come further down the line.

 

In a free society, we all have choices.  If we don't, it's not a free society.

[catmiss 12]

24 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said:

I hope you are in the first cohort to get it, and in your position, I would also want it.  I'm getting by, and trying to get my head around it all, while protecting myself and others close to me the best I can.  Decisions come further down the line.

 

In a free society, we all have choices.  If we don't, it's not a free society.

Looking at the vaccine priority list I think I’ll be in the 4th lot as after Care home staff and residents it’s age banded until <65 when ‘vulnerability’ kicks in. I’m quite happy to wait as at least there may be an end in sight 

[petemcewan 27]

Becky B

You have probably read  from the link what I've put in quotation marks. But it's worth adding here (for the rest of the Forum).

 

mRNA vaccines are a major breakthrough in the whole of  vaccination science. They  show promise for vaccinating against Influenza (no more IIV and LAIV) .

 

Quote

 Chahal et al. developed an intriguing platform consisting of a chemically modified dendrimer nanoparticle to condense self-amplifying mRNA encoding influenza HA. A single immunization in mice elicited potent CD8+ T cell and antibody responses and protected mice against a broad spectrum of lethal pathogen challenges, including H1N1 influenza, Toxoplasma gondii, and Ebola virus (64).

 

 

 

https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines

 

Such a breakthrough in vaccination science may very well bail us out . When,in the future, humanity is confronted by new emerging zoonotic viruses.

 

 

 

Quote

“The fact that two different vaccines made by two different companies with two different kinds of structures, in a new messenger RNA concept, both worked so effectively confirms the concept once and for all that this is a viable strategy not only for Covid but for future infectious disease threats,” said Dr. Barry R. Bloom, a professor of public health at Harvard.

The New York Times (MY Chrome Book 17/11/20)

Edited November 17, 2020 by petemcewan

[RiffRaff 10]

The cynic in me begins to wonder if the term "key workers" might suddenly encompass other groups, such as politicians, civil defence and council officials and the like...y'know, those people who are deemed to be more important because of their (supposed) organisational skills and the like.

A bit like those fortunates who would have been granted access to the nuclear shelter, if and when!