Coronavirus - Part Two.

[Becky B 31]

2 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

I think there's a chance it would make a mask much less effective. I recall reading something years ago that in the 1970s the SAS weren't allowed to have beards as it would make the gas masks ineffective and they went with Mexican 'tasches so they were called Los Banditos.

 

I might have some of it (all of it?) wrong but it sounds right!

NHS staff who need to use the FFP3 masks have to be clean shaven, or they don't fit effectively.

Given that the face coverings are just a shield and virus particles can get around the edges anyway, I don't suppose it'll make that much difference...

[PRESLEY 1,224]

3 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

I think there's a chance it would make a mask much less effective. I recall reading something years ago that in the 1970s the SAS weren't allowed to have beards as it would make the gas masks ineffective and they went with Mexican 'tasches so they were called Los Banditos.

 

I might have some of it (all of it?) wrong but it sounds right!

Sure your not getting confused with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. 

[onewheeldave 22]

1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said:

I know, it's like people don't understand autistic, disabled and dead are completely immune to covid19 and everything else that's been put to try and  stop the spread of an incurable disease doesn't apply to them.

They're not immune, as you well know. Neither did I claim they were, as you well know. In  addition to the risks of the virus, they've also been hit disproportionatley hard by the lockdown, some are dead because of it.

47 minutes ago, PRESLEY said:

Wonder how the moaning minnies would have gone on in world war 1 or2,  

I very much doubt that the population of England at that time would have complied with house arrest of the healthy population and being forced to wear cloth rags on their face.

[Longcol 598]

21 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

 

I very much doubt that the population of England at that time would have complied with house arrest of the healthy population and being forced to wear cloth rags on their face.

They managed the blackout quite well,, carried ID cards, many city dwellers kids were evacuated, food was rationed, gas masks kept at hand etc........................................

 

Did I mention conscription into the armed services?

Edited July 14, 2020 by Longcol

[nikki-red 307]

Back on topic please.

[Pettytom 1]

1 hour ago, onewheeldave said:

They're not immune, as you well know. Neither did I claim they were, as you well know. In  addition to the risks of the virus, they've also been hit disproportionatley hard by the lockdown, some are dead because of it.

I very much doubt that the population of England at that time would have complied with house arrest of the healthy population and being forced to wear cloth rags on their face.

You aren’t being forced to wear a cloth rag on your face.

 

You are being required to cover your face if you want to go into a shop. That’s completely different.

 

If you really can’t cover your face to  help us to limit the spread of this evil virus, please stay at home and take advantage of the many voluntary groups who will shop for you.

[apelike 10]

1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

If you really can’t cover your face to  help us to limit the spread of this evil virus, please stay at home and take advantage of the many voluntary groups who will shop for you.

But you are ignoring the whole point of this discussion and that is whether wearing one will actually help us  limit the spread.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-homemade-masks-and-scarves-can-limit-spread-of-covid-19-study-says-but-there-are-downsides-11991766

 

That is dated 21st May

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-does-the-science-actually-say-about-face-masks-11931121

 

This is dated 14th July

 

BTW I'm not saying dont wear one, I'm simply pointing out as the above also does that it is hardly going to do anything and may actually be counterproductive.

 

 

[Lex Luthor 10]

16 hours ago, apelike said:

I don't think that is true unless you can provide some stats to back it up. What has happened is that some cancer treatments were put on hold which is a bit different to being denied treatment. The same has also applied to non life threatening medical procedures as well.

That's just semantics.  People have lost their lives because they haven't received treatment.  For many others that "putting on hold" has made it too late.  They've been told they can't have treatment - that's being denied treatment.  Cancer can't be "put on hold" while the government plays at dealing with CV-19, not issuing clear instructions, constant back-pedalling, u-turns, setting poor examples, and double speak.

 

[Lex Luthor 10]

10 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Evidence:

Me. My cancer treatment (progressive but not immediately life threatening) is not "on hold" it, it is not delayed, deferred or postponed it is just not going to happen. I am no longer on a list or in a queue.

If no date was set for the operation then the whole process will have to start  through the GP again "if it accelerates".

 

On the other hand another consultation was far more effective when done on the phone at the correct time.

 

 

 

 

I'm very sorry to hear this.

You must be a very strong person.

 

[Lex Luthor 10]

5 hours ago, apelike said:

But you are ignoring the whole point of this discussion and that is whether wearing one will actually help us  limit the spread.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-homemade-masks-and-scarves-can-limit-spread-of-covid-19-study-says-but-there-are-downsides-11991766

 

That is dated 21st May

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-does-the-science-actually-say-about-face-masks-11931121

 

This is dated 14th July

 

BTW I'm not saying dont wear one, I'm simply pointing out as the above also does that it is hardly going to do anything and may actually be counterproductive.

 

 

My take on this, from what I've read:

 

 

Surgical masks and simple cloth masks offer some but very limited protection to the user.

 

We are being asked to use them as a courtesy to others, as they will reduce the levels of virus we could be emitting.

 

If you don't use them properly, you could be endangering others and yourself, so you must wash hands before applying, before and after removing, only touch ear loops, dispose of responsibly, etc

 

They must be used in conjunction with regular hand washing/use of hand sanitizer.

 

There are more effective masks available but people have been asked to not purchase FFP3 masks or respirators, to ensure greater availability for health care workers.  As far as I am aware, the public can purchase FFP2 masks where available.

 

We are asked to be mindful of the environment when using disposable masks.  A recent study and subsequent articles suggest FFP2 and 3 disposable masks can be sterilised using steam method in microwave for 3 minutes without any degredation for the first 20 times.  If you wish to attempt this do your research on how to do this properly.

 

It would seem that the government thinks that wearing masks will make us feel safer and therefore more likely to patronise businesses as more and more restrictions are eased.  I believe that this is a risky gamble.  I believe, definitely, that people should be wearing masks in public but if we are to get any benefit from this, any reduction in infections, then this needs to happen alongside social distancing, not in place of social distancing.  The pictures of shops tearing up their distance markers is filling me with horror and despair, as the numbers rise again.

 

Although the masks vary in efficiency and none offer 100% protection.  We have heard that "viral load" may be an important factor in outcomes for patients.   If used properly, a mask may help reduce "viral load" and hopefully, this may help us achieve better outcomes for patients.

 

 

 

[Pettytom 1]

6 hours ago, apelike said:

But you are ignoring the whole point of this discussion and that is whether wearing one will actually help us  limit the spread.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-homemade-masks-and-scarves-can-limit-spread-of-covid-19-study-says-but-there-are-downsides-11991766

 

That is dated 21st May

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-what-does-the-science-actually-say-about-face-masks-11931121

 

This is dated 14th July

 

BTW I'm not saying dont wear one, I'm simply pointing out as the above also does that it is hardly going to do anything and may actually be counterproductive.

 

 

I’ve seen from your other posts that you wear a mask when shopping. I do too, despite some reservations.

 

Your second  link has plenty of sources that suggest that face coverings assist in preventing the spread of the disease. It is becoming clearer that the coverings are particularly effective in reducing spread from asymptomatic  people.

 

If we want to get back to anywhere near normal, we have to keep the infection rate down.
 

Face  coverings are clearly an important part of the strategy that will achieve this.

 

That’s it really. People need to keep

their distance, wear a face covering and keep their hands clean. These things are a civic duty. Just because some people can’t or won’t, shouldn’t stop most of us from doing it and encouraging the others to do likewise.

[RiffRaff 10]

I don't get this.

Until recently, the advice was to try and spend less than 15 minutes "close" to someone.

Today, the advice regarding face coverings for office workers not being required seems to lean towards the opposite - you won't need masking because you spend all day with your office colleague.

Likewise, confusing advice re shop workers not requiring masks... I could, as a customer, be refused entry to any shop because I'm not geared up with one, but the person who'd have served me doesn't have to wear one.

Equally, if he/she goes next door for a sandwich, they'll have to don one.

Having been served in there, they can return to their own shop, and pass me on the doorstep....they could be taking their's off in order to carry on working, and pass me struggling to put mine on!