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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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I thought I read somewhere that individual police officers had targets they were supposed to meet for arrests/cautions etc.  If that is so, you would have thought that "soft" targets such as those not enforcing the rules/people not wearing masks (after asking for evidence that they are not exempt of course) would neatly get figures up to targets.  Ditto large groups of people people in/sitting outside pubs and so on.

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2 hours ago, PopT said:

I was shopping in the Home Bargain store today & noticed none of the staff were wearing facemasks although they were mixing with customers. I spoke to  one of the customers who wasn't wearing a mask. When I asked her she said she hadn't got one.

We keep hearing about the government fining people for ignoring the anti virus guidelines but how do shops carry on trading & completing ignoring their customers welfare by not having any guidelines  or just simpliy turn a blind eye to the actions of customers who blatantly are putting others health at risk.

If the government or local authorities  were keener with the store managers as a health & safety risk this would soon have a good effect. It would be interesting to read what opinions others have on this  post .  Happy Days! 

 

This is so strange - I was in a Home Bargains yesterday (not a Sheffield branch)

 and the complete opposite was the case, All the staff had masks on and if anything were keeping their distance from customers. 

I think it is down to each branch manager by the look of things.

 

Keep safe

 

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21 hours ago, Pettytom said:

Maybe you need to acknowledge that masks, distancing and hand hygiene are all simple, but effective steps in combating a serious threat to public health.

 

That, and the fact that unless we all act together, this thing will become even worse than it is now.

We are doing that. Sanitizer is absolutely everywhere. Masks on pretty much everyone. Distancing where possible. 

 

So what next? As mentioned in this thread plenty of times, industries are hanging by a thread. The BBC have reported half a million redundancies are likely to come. Entire sectors are at risk and to add to that the public are turning on each other even more so now their education, jobs, treatments and livelihoods are at stake. People are and will become desperate. 

 

If even 10% of those affected by redundancies (and I'm aware this is drastic) end up dying due to suicides or knock on effects from losing their jobs (homelessness, illnesses, lack of treatment) it will have killed more people than the virus has in the UK

 

Simply saying stick a mask on and wash your hands is not going to cut it, nor is locking down. 

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1 hour ago, Tomm06 said:

We are doing that. Sanitizer is absolutely everywhere. Masks on pretty much everyone. Distancing where possible. 

 

So what next? As mentioned in this thread plenty of times, industries are hanging by a thread. The BBC have reported half a million redundancies are likely to come. Entire sectors are at risk and to add to that the public are turning on each other even more so now their education, jobs, treatments and livelihoods are at stake. People are and will become desperate. 

 

If even 10% of those affected by redundancies (and I'm aware this is drastic) end up dying due to suicides or knock on effects from losing their jobs (homelessness, illnesses, lack of treatment) it will have killed more people than the virus has in the UK

 

Simply saying stick a mask on and wash your hands is not going to cut it, nor is locking down. 

I think it will be an awful lot more than half a million. Small businesses (under 20) don’t have to do consultations for redundancy. Government seems happy to bin the arts off so that’s a lot of people signing on. 

 

But arguably, sticking a mask on, washing your hands and keeping your distance does work. What have Germany done that’s radically different? Their population (90%) have complied.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

I think it will be an awful lot more than half a million. Small businesses (under 20) don’t have to do consultations for redundancy. Government seems happy to bin the arts off so that’s a lot of people signing on. 

 

But arguably, sticking a mask on, washing your hands and keeping your distance does work. What have Germany done that’s radically different? Their population (90%) have complied.

I mean I think anyone would find it difficult to disagree good sanitation is beneficial. The masks - well there seems to be mixed feelings on those it seems, depending on which studies or data sets you wish to believe. 

 

Even in spite of the entire country doing this we are still seeing tension and collapse of business and industry. In terms of hospitality and the arts etc the restrictions and the mask wearing is what is killing it. 

 

I'm pretty sure we have had this discussion before re: what can't you do with a mask on and after speaking to a considerable amount of friends/colleagues etc I've found that most if not all are just not interested in taking part in things like going for a pint or going to the cinema if everything is clinical and restricted. I would guess because as per the 'norm' we use these industries and businesses to try and relax, wind down or even enjoy ourselves. If the fun is taken away and the experiences are limited then it will die out. 

Edited by Tomm06

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12 hours ago, Tomm06 said:

I mean I think anyone would find it difficult to disagree good sanitation is beneficial. The masks - well there seems to be mixed feelings on those it seems, depending on which studies or data sets you wish to believe. 

 

Even in spite of the entire country doing this we are still seeing tension and collapse of business and industry. In terms of hospitality and the arts etc the restrictions and the mask wearing is what is killing it. 

 

I'm pretty sure we have had this discussion before re: what can't you do with a mask on and after speaking to a considerable amount of friends/colleagues etc I've found that most if not all are just not interested in taking part in things like going for a pint or going to the cinema if everything is clinical and restricted. I would guess because as per the 'norm' we use these industries and businesses to try and relax, wind down or even enjoy ourselves. If the fun is taken away and the experiences are limited then it will die out. 

I know what you're saying about creative industries (worth 120bn compared with fishing at £1.4bn). They could die out. The chancellor is actively encouraging people to retrain, and many won't go back, companies that go bust certainly won't come back. 

 

If the vaccine we are promised doesn't go a really long way to cracking this, I don't know what happens.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

I know what you're saying about creative industries (worth 120bn compared with fishing at £1.4bn). They could die out. The chancellor is actively encouraging people to retrain, and many won't go back, companies that go bust certainly won't come back. 

 

If the vaccine we are promised doesn't go a really long way to cracking this, I don't know what happens.

what is he suggesting they retrain to do though? Generally education is now expensive (tuition fees) and may not be debt some want to take on. Also if they have children they may need to actually earn money to stay afloat, so retraining is a non-starter anyway.

 

Seems to me some of our European neighbours are supporting such industries to hibernate and have people ready to go once things return to normal. I suppose you get what you vote for though!

Edited by nightrider

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8 hours ago, apelike said:

Looks like a lot of health professionals including scientists are not happy about lockdowns either.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54442386

 

 

The Barrington declaration signed by many scientists and apparently gaining wider support advocates a return to normal activity for the majority whilst ‘protecting and supporting’ the most vulnerable. They claim the imposition of restrictions only suppresses infection which rises quickly when they are relaxed. They also claim any additional resulting deaths would be negated by lives saved by a fully functioning NHS ,a recovering economy and improving mental health 

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Posted (edited)

 

19 minutes ago, catmiss said:

The Barrington declaration signed by many scientists and apparently gaining wider support advocates a return to normal activity for the majority whilst ‘protecting and supporting’ the most vulnerable. They claim the imposition of restrictions only suppresses infection which rises quickly when they are relaxed. They also claim any additional resulting deaths would be negated by lives saved by a fully functioning NHS ,a recovering economy and improving mental health 

Seems like a not very well thought through argument for "herd immunity" at a time when we don't even know  if someone who has had the virus is immune and if so for how long.

 

And it's a relative handful of scientists apparently linked to Trumps favoured covid advisor, Scott Atlas.

 

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-scientific-divide

 

"On Twitter, the economist and statistician Tim Harford noted the “scientists divided” theme featured prominently in the campaigns of tobacco firms keen to delay action on smoking-related disease and climate change deniers. We should be careful about how we interpret any so-called divide when it comes to Covid-19. And when we’re weighing up whether one approach is better than another, we should be extremely clear about what is science, what is supposition and what is just surface."

 

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

 

 

Edited by Longcol

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Seems like a not very well thought through argument for "herd immunity" at a time when we don't even know  if someone who has had the virus is immune and if so for how long.

 

And it's a relative handful of scientists apparently linked to Trumps favoured covid advisor, Scott Atlas.

 

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-scientific-divide

 

"On Twitter, the economist and statistician Tim Harford noted the “scientists divided” theme featured prominently in the campaigns of tobacco firms keen to delay action on smoking-related disease and climate change deniers. We should be careful about how we interpret any so-called divide when it comes to Covid-19. And when we’re weighing up whether one approach is better than another, we should be extremely clear about what is science, what is supposition and what is just surface."

 

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

 

 

I watched a tv item today with scientist contributors from both camps, both from British universities, and both with persuasive arguments so I am a fence sitter. I’m also one of the ‘vulnerable’ who, after a brief sojourn into the new normal, has returned to self isolating with rates rising,  a situation which neither solution will solve

Edited by catmiss
Grammar

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