onewheeldave 22 #1345 Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, melthebell said: Your post said 34 so I used that, stop moving things once people pull you up on it, you was doing it before With longcol saying what he quoted wasn't right You've misunderstood, I've moved nothing- the number dead in the UK with coronavirus was 34. But you asked- 11 hours ago, melthebell said: and why is it only 34? because we had a lockdown march to july? people wearing masks? handwashing? social distancing? what would deaths be like without all those? 38? was my answer. Which will no doubt be seen as facetious, but, as far as I know, deaths could be in the thousands, or, may barely rise- no one knows what effect the lockdown had on covid deaths as the 'research' is so contaminated by vested interests, fearmongering, propaganda etc. What I do know is 1. that the deaths caused by the economic effects of lockdowns will be extremely high 2. the majority of the public whose voices are being heard, and, the majority of the media, and, the authorities putting these lockdowns in place are not taking those deaths into account 3. if people do not wake up from this hysteria and stand up for their rights, we are at serious risk of an irreversible slide into global totalitarianism Edited September 26, 2020 by onewheeldave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Arnold_Lane 0 #1346 Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: You've misunderstood, I've moved nothing- the number dead in the UK with coronavirus was 34. But you asked- 38? was my answer. Which will no doubt be seen as facetious, but, as far as I know, deaths could be in the thousands, or, may barely rise- no one knows what effect the lockdown had on covid deaths as the 'research' is so contaminated by vested interests, fearmongering, propaganda etc. What I do know is 1. that the deaths caused by the economic effects of lockdowns will be extremely high 2. the majority of the public whose voices are being heard, and, the majority of the media, and, the authorities putting these lockdowns in place are not taking those deaths into account 3. if people do not wake up from this hysteria and stand up for their rights, we are at serious risk of an irreversible slide into global totalitarianism A story in the Mail today says 75,000 lockdown related deaths over the next 5 years. Current Covid deaths are 42,000. If you stuck to that you’d have more support and better discussion. When you start carping on about a slide into global totalitarianism you lose support from the level headed. Wake up to that fact. Edited September 26, 2020 by Arnold_Lane Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
onewheeldave 22 #1347 Posted September 26, 2020 10 hours ago, Pettytom said: Without our current measures, Covid would be out of control. We could easily be seeing several hundred deaths per day again. Maybe more. And? Several hundred people, in normal times, die of cancer each day in the UK [450]- very likely going to be higher due to the numbers not getting treatment due to the lockdown. Add in heart attacks, those dying from obesity/type 2 diabetes etc etc- nothing unusual about many hundreds dying per day. Most deaths from obesity, heart disease, type 2 diabetes and the other chronic illnesses plaguing advanced western nations wouldn't exist if their diet/lifestyle didn't cause them- they are, in the main, preventable. People ask 'why are covid deaths in the UK so high?'- IMO, almost certainly due to our very ill population; in the UK it is now 'normal' to be overweight, type 2 diabetic or pre diabetic, to have some degree of coronary heart disease. If 1/10th of the resources currently being put into locking the population down were put into tackling that health issue, then not only would many hundreds/day [thousands?] of lives be saved in the long term, it would likely mean that the UK would be far less affected by covid and the other pandemic viruses that are going to be appearing with regularity in the future, some of which may make covid look like a mild cold [remember the Spanish flu?} 10 hours ago, Pettytom said: Stop agitating against reasonable measures. I'm not agitating- I'm stating my reasoned opinions. You can disagree with me, but you can't censor me. 10 hours ago, Pettytom said: Stop agitating against reasonable measures. Wear a face covering. Keep your distance. Wash your hands. Don’t be an idiot. Beat it together. Stay safe. Don't be blindly complient. Stand up against bullying authority. Don't wear a mask unless you want to. Value freedom. We are not 'in this together'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
butlers 259 #1348 Posted September 26, 2020 That Mail story is misleading bordering idiotic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
onewheeldave 22 #1349 Posted September 26, 2020 6 hours ago, petemcewan said: PettyTom As a starting point, I think it’s widely agreed amongst the morally alert in society. That there is a duty to be a minimally decent Samaritan, that is, one should go out of one’s way to help another if it entails little cost to oneself. Wearing a face covering, and socially distancing are of little cost to oneself-it's not a great deal to ask. And by doing so we are helping one another get on with life. Consequently ,we will beat it together. We are not 'in this together'. Many of us are not on board with a lot of the lockdown measures; we are horrified at what is being done to the economy; at the absolute lack of acknowledgement that thousands are being harmed by losing their jobs, being refused access to essential medical care, dismayed at how much of the public have not only rolled over in the face of serious assault on their civil liberty, but, are actually crying out for more lockdown, more fines, more punishment of a scapegoated minority whose only crime is to think for themselves, make up their own minds, and, act accordingly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
onewheeldave 22 #1350 Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Arnold_Lane said: A story in the Mail today says 75,000 lockdown deaths over the next 5 years. Current Covid deaths are 42,000. If you stuck to that you’d have support. 75,000/5=15,000/year /52=288/week /7=41/day Which coincidentally is pretty much the current uk daily death rate from covid Edited September 26, 2020 by onewheeldave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
butlers 259 #1351 Posted September 26, 2020 The numbers don't really say that if you read the full article. The expectation is covid deaths will be at 100 a day in a couple if weeks,was in radio4 this morning Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
onewheeldave 22 #1352 Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, butlers said: The numbers don't really say that if you read the full article. The expectation is covid deaths will be at 100 a day in a couple if weeks,was in radio4 this morning I didn't read the full article, I responded to the figures quoted in the post. I don't pay much attention to 'expectations' having waitnessed the farcical computer predictions put out at the start of this, and other 'pandemics'. If covid deaths do go up to 100/day, then if you read my post above [#1400] you will see that in the grand scheme of daily deaths from many other conditions, it really isn't significant. The resources being used for the lockdowns could, IMO, be more useful if applied to tackling the preventable amongst those conditions which would ultimately, overall, being down the UKs total daily death rate i.e save more lives. Edited September 26, 2020 by onewheeldave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Becky B 31 #1353 Posted September 26, 2020 1 minute ago, onewheeldave said: I didn't read the full article, I responded to the figures quoted in the post. I don't pay much attention to 'expectations' having waitnessed the farcical computer predictions put out at the start of this, and other 'pandemics'. If covid deaths do go up to 100/day, then if you read my post above [#1400] you will see that in the grand scheme of daily deaths from many other conditions, it really isn't significant. The resources being used for the lockdowns could, IMO, be more useful if applied to tackling the preventable amongst those conditions which would ultimately, overall, being down the UKs total daily death rate i.e save more lives. Whilst I agree with you about tackling the long term health of the nation (which is a discussion for another place, I think), we are currently trying to manage a crisis, and the resources are needed for that. Long term changes to the general health of the nation aren't something that's going to happen in the next few weeks or months and the resources can't be spared at the moment. Lockdown measures are there to control the spread of the virus to try and reduce hospital admissions with Covid-19 and not overwhelm hospitals. Currently people are getting essential treatment, but if wards and ITUs are full of Covid-19 cases, that reduces availability for other services and therefore affects the ability to offer those essential treatments. Don't forget that this virus doesn't just affect people with underlying conditions, the frail and elderly. It has serious effects on otherwise fit and healthy people, and also causes significant long-term consequences to health. Some services have already diverted resources to rehabilitate people who have survived the virus, which again has knock on effects on their ability to see their usual patients. We are coming into the time that usually stretches NHS hospitals to breaking point. Let's not make it worse than usual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
El Cid 212 #1354 Posted September 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Becky B said: Lockdown measures are there to control the spread of the virus to try and reduce hospital admissions with Covid-19 and not overwhelm hospitals. That was why we locked down in March, because we were not ready. Surely the NHS is now prepared? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Pettytom 1 #1355 Posted September 26, 2020 1 hour ago, butlers said: The numbers don't really say that if you read the full article. The expectation is covid deaths will be at 100 a day in a couple if weeks,was in radio4 this morning If the government really wanted to trash the economy and the NHS, then allowing Covid to rip would be the way to do it. 2 hours ago, onewheeldave said: I'm not agitating- I'm stating my reasoned opinions. You can disagree with me, but you can't censor me. Stay safe. Don't be blindly complient. Stand up against bullying authority. Don't wear a mask unless you want to. Value freedom. We are not 'in this together'. Please don’t stand near to me, unmasked in any shops them. You can be as individual as you like, but don’t you go putting my health at risk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
onewheeldave 22 #1356 Posted September 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Pettytom said: Please don’t stand near to me, unmasked in any shops them. You can be as individual as you like, but don’t you go putting my health at risk I'd ask the same of you, please cease to perpetuate fear and hysteria amongst the public and defend harmful lockdowns while neglecting to acknowledge the serious consequences of said lockdowns on the economy and access to medical care- you are putting my life, and the lives of many others, at risk. I'm self employed and autistic- it was hard enough getting sufficient work before all this; my industry is one of those that have been totally crippled by the covid measures. We've had the last of the [partially] compensatory grants, from now on the future is very worrying. And there are many in a worse position than me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...