Coronavirus - Part Two.

[hackey lad 3,928]

22 minutes ago, top4718 said:

Using the Evening Standard for "facts", come on 🤣

 

Riddle me this - the only people allowed to fly at the moment are the vaccinated or people with negative tests (although some have dropped this) if the latest variant is spreading worldwide then it can only be the vaccinated that are spreading it, proof if anymore were needed that vaccine passports are an absolute joke.

Any chance of a reply to post 12482 which was directed at you 

[Bargepole23 337]

8 hours ago, top4718 said:

Using the Evening Standard for "facts", come on 🤣

 

Riddle me this - the only people allowed to fly at the moment are the vaccinated or people with negative tests (although some have dropped this) if the latest variant is spreading worldwide then it can only be the vaccinated that are spreading it, proof if anymore were needed that vaccine passports are an absolute joke.

A few days ago you said I was classified as unvaccinated because I hadn't had a booster. Not particularly relevant to the comment above but I asked you who was classifying me, and billions of others, in that way.

 

You never responded so I can only assume you were just inventing it to promote your stance. Either you made it up yourself, were misinformed or lying, which one?

 

When you have an answer, come back to me.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Bargepole23

[Guest makapaka]

11 hours ago, hackey lad said:

What are you doing ? And someone else brought brexit up . I just answered 

What do you mean what am I doing?

[fools 447]

1 hour ago, Bargepole23 said:

who was classifying me, and billions of others, in that way.

 

 

Try going for a meal in France in a few weeks time

 

Then look at the game of unhinged authoritarian one-upmanship going on elsewhere.

 

The political language going on here is making it clear that 2 isn't seen as being fully vaccinated. We are already at 4 for some people.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by fools

[top4718 838]

 

9 hours ago, Longcol said:

They're quoting ONS as the source and including a tweet from ONS in the story - you know the same ONS you said hadn't produced stats since July 2020.

 

No fan of the Evening Standard but it's more reliable than social media where you appear to get your "facts" from.

Can you paste a link from the ONS with up to date figures.

 

For the record if anyone who thinks that suicide rates haven't risen when mental health has gone through the roof, people have lost businesses and livlihoods, the young have an uncertain future, domestic violence is on the increase, people who need care have been left isolated and people's social activities have been ended (during lockdown) then your absolutely living in cloud cuckoo land.

[Annie Bynnol 610]

9 hours ago, top4718 said:

 

Riddle me this - the only people allowed to fly at the moment are the vaccinated or people with negative tests (although some have dropped this) if the latest variant is spreading worldwide then it can only be the vaccinated that are spreading it, proof if anymore were needed that vaccine passports are an absolute joke.

You have the ability to selectively read what you want to make your point.

You have the ability to selectively quote what you want to make your point.

But you seem to have an unending ability to extrapolate nonsense as exemplified.

If it was a question it would be valid as you would be seeking an explanation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chekhov 488]

13 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

Oh dear. That wasn't freedom fighting, that was just you walking through the arcade at Hillsborough, making zero impact. Please don't associate your trivial actions with those who have made sacrifices to fight for their freedom.

On that we will have to disagree.

But on the subject of making sacrifices fighting for freedom, what kid of freedom have we had for much of the last two years ? And, in fact, there is a significant minority (maybe even a slight majority) who are in  favour of vaccine passports and even compulsory vaccination. I wonder whet those who died fighting for freedom would think about that ? Funnily enough I saw an ex-forces guy in a T Shirt in Oxford this last June on it were the words "I didn't serve in the forces for 15 years  for this kind of freedom". Unanswerable I'd have thought.....

[Chekhov 488]

10 hours ago, Longcol said:

Where did these stats for 2021 come from then?

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ons-england-government-samaritans-wales-b954050.html

 

 

How do you explain this then ? :

 

Humber bridge closed to pedestrians due to unprecedented suicides

 

and this :

 

Deaths of people treated under the Mental Health Act rose during pandemic
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59336579

 

and this :

 

The Times Monday 18th Oct 21 (p13) :
Pandemic blamed for a 70% leap in psychosis referrals*
The number of people suffering symptoms of psychosis has risen sharply during the pandemic according to a mental health charity.
Numerous surveys have shown a rise in anxiety and poor mental health over the past year and a half.
Referrals to mental health services for suspected first episodes of psychosis are up by 70% from last year.

* Technically this should read attempts to suppress the pandemic blamed for a 70% leap in psychosis referrals, surely ? It is not virus per se which has caused this.

 

As I have said before, I don't think overall suicides will have gone up in 2020 due to the "war effect" (suicides drop during wars), but I would be amazed if they don't start going up from about November 2020 onwards.

[Chekhov 488]

15 hours ago, butlers said:

Isn't it widely held there was a big under report at the start of the outbreak ?

And isn't the died with covid number up nearer  180,000

Absolutely not, more likely the other way. I know of people whose relatives died of heart attacks in Spring 2020 yet they were put down as Covid deaths. Doctors weren't even visiting care homes (certainly not my mother-in-laws) in Apr / May 2020 so they must have been diagnosing the causes of death (as Covid), "over the phone".

You have to understand that doctors really aren't that bothered what kills old people, I found this when my father in law died. They just listed everything he had wrong with him as the cause of death. So, if they have a "get out" (Covid) they'll use it if there's even the slightest chance it had something to do with it, but remember back in Spring 2020 they weren't testing many peopel at all.

Pity it isn't like that now I would say, it's all this testing which is keeping this madness going, if they tested everyone who died for , say, flu, the death rate for flu would be massive...

 

15 hours ago, Chekhov said:

OK what did you say ?

What percentage of those who died within 28 days of a positive Covid test do you think actually died of Covid (i.e. they died from Covid and would not have died had they not had Covid within 28 days of their death ?

Or, to put it another way, in your opinion, what percentage of people who died within 28 days of a positive Covid test would have died anyway even had they not had Covid ?

 

I said, and provided evidence, that it's probably about 75% actually died of Covid (rather than with Covid) and you disagreed, so what percentage is it then ?

Can we have a figure please Carbuncle ?

Multiple choice to make it easier ?

 

A - 100% of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test actually died of Covid

B - 90% of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test actually died of Covid

C - 80% of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test actually died of Covid

D - 70% of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test actually died of Covid

 

Which one is closest to your estimation ?

And what is your evidence for your answer ? After all, I linked to evidence for mine (at 75%).

Edited December 1, 2021 by Chekhov

[L00b 441]

16 hours ago, Chekhov said:

(…)

 

If Covid was killing 20% of the population even I would say we have to do just about anything to stop it. 

But it isn't, Covid has killed about 0.2% of the UK population (average age 83), that's 100X less.

Well, isn’t that just mightily generous of you, to decide what proportion of the UK population should be sacrificed on the altar of unbridled liberalism? 😏

 

I know many of the more elderly contrarians like to wallow in misplaced, WW2-inspired sentimentalism, so how about this historico-statistical nugget: Covid has already killed more of the UK population, both in numbers and proportion, than the Blitz did (43,000 est., for 48m population est. = 0.1%).

 

Could we therefore take it, reasonably, that masking in public and social distancing are less taxing on the individual, in terms of civil liberty curtailment (on a voluntary basis moreover) than the blackout-, ARP- and assorted other wartime-era curtailments of the time?

 

 

[RJRB 682]

36 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

On that we will have to disagree.

But on the subject of making sacrifices fighting for freedom, what kid of freedom have we had for much of the last two years ? And, in fact, there is a significant minority (maybe even a slight majority) who are in  favour of vaccine passports and even compulsory vaccination. I wonder whet those who died fighting for freedom would think about that ? Funnily enough I saw an ex-forces guy in a T Shirt in Oxford this last June on it were the words "I didn't serve in the forces for 15 years  for this kind of freedom". Unanswerable I'd have thought.....

That’s jingoistic rubbish.

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

8 minutes ago, RJRB said:

That’s jingoistic rubbish.

Hmmm...

For a question that the poster thought unanswerable...

... I'd say you pretty much nailed it!