Coronavirus - Part Two.

[melthebell 862]

 

[Carbuncle 0]

52 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Can we have a figure please Carbuncle ?

Multiple choice to make it easier ?

 

A - 100% of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test actually died of Covid

B - 90% of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test actually died of Covid

C - 80% of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test actually died of Covid

D - 70% of people dying within 28 days of a positive Covid test actually died of Covid

 

Which one is closest to your estimation ?

And what is your evidence for your answer ? After all, I linked to evidence for mine (at 75%).

I do not have an estimate for the percentage of people dying within 28 days of a positive covid test who actually died of covid [and I never said I did]. I do not even think 'died of covid' can sensibly be defined. 'Died of covid' is an approximate kind of thing.

 

For what it is worth, over the first few months of the pandemic the excess mortality rose to around 60 000 in the period the 'died with covid' statistic made its way to 40 000. [This comes from data on Our World in Data.]

 

Now ... in reference to your Telegraph article, have you worked out whether you have misinterpreted it or whether the Telegraph article itself was wrong? You have read the article, haven't you? I'm going to guess you have read and misinterpreted it but then I have not seen it because it is behind a paywall.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Carbuncle

[Guest makapaka]

48 minutes ago, L00b said:

what proportion of the UK population should be sacrificed on the altar of unbridled liberalism?

What proportion do you think?

[L00b 441]

27 minutes ago, makapaka said:

What proportion do you think?

Not sure why you’re asking me (I’m not the poster guesstimating percentages, Chekhov was), nor why you edited my post to make it look as if I’d asked that question.

 

Why don’t you explain that to me first, and we’ll take it from there.

[hackey lad 3,955]

3 hours ago, makapaka said:

What do you mean what am I doing?

What are you doing. Are you wearing a mask, have you had the jabs , do you social distance, hand washing?

[hackey lad 3,955]

1 hour ago, makapaka said:

What proportion do you think?

No one should be “sacrificed “ 

[Chekhov 488]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

Could we therefore take it, reasonably, that masking in public and social distancing are less taxing on the individual, in terms of civil liberty curtailment (on a voluntary basis moreover) than the blackout-, ARP- and assorted other wartime-era curtailments of the time?

Nuff said.

If it were on a voluntary basis then if people chose to do it (even if the evidence is mixed as to its effectiveness) then they should be free to do so.

Similarly, if I consider all this suppression to be disproportionate to the risk and just want to live my life that should be down to me.

The problem we have is there are too many people more frightened of Covid than they rationally should be, i.e. their knowledge of risk probability is sadly lacking and/or their risk aversion is (to me) excessive, and they are trying to suppress my life to match their risk aversion level. NO.

 

2 hours ago, L00b said:

Well, isn’t that just mightily generous of you, to decide what proportion of the UK population should be sacrificed on the altar of unbridled liberalism? 😏

 

TBH I don't even know what you mean by that.

And I would not call it "unbridled liberalism" to simply be able to go about my business without having to wear a mask. Or indeed be allowed to go about my lawful business full stop.

 

2 hours ago, RJRB said:

>>But on the subject of making sacrifices fighting for freedom, what kid of freedom have we had for much of the last two years ? And, in fact, there is a significant minority (maybe even a slight majority) who are in  favour of vaccine passports and even compulsory vaccination. I wonder whet those who died fighting for freedom would think about that ? Funnily enough I saw an ex-forces guy in a T Shirt in Oxford this last June on it were the words "I didn't serve in the forces for 15 years  for this kind of freedom". Unanswerable I'd have thought.....<<

 

That’s jingoistic rubbish.

It really isn't. Your answer is to avoid answering

 

2 hours ago, Carbuncle said:

I do not have an estimate for the percentage of people dying within 28 days of a positive covid test who actually died of covid [and I never said I did]. I do not even think 'died of covid' can sensibly be defined. 'Died of covid' is an approximate kind of thing.

On that we can definitely agree.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Chekhov

[Bargepole23 337]

3 hours ago, Chekhov said:

On that we will have to disagree.

But on the subject of making sacrifices fighting for freedom, what kid of freedom have we had for much of the last two years ? And, in fact, there is a significant minority (maybe even a slight majority) who are in  favour of vaccine passports and even compulsory vaccination. I wonder whet those who died fighting for freedom would think about that ? Funnily enough I saw an ex-forces guy in a T Shirt in Oxford this last June on it were the words "I didn't serve in the forces for 15 years  for this kind of freedom". Unanswerable I'd have thought.....

Why is it unanswerable? Why does serving in the forces give you some special knowledge or right to decide what is or isn't permissible? I'm struggling to see how serving in forces and the current covid restrictions are in any way linked or related.

[RJRB 688]

8 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Nuff said.

 

It really isn't. Your answer is to avoid answering

 

There is really little to answer but in a very long thread there are more than enough emotion driven comments without raising “our brave lads” and veiled references to WW2.

Any soldier having served 15 years gave up his personal freedoms on signing on  in order to give unquestioning service to the government of the day.

The truth is that most of us sacrifice some personal freedoms.Thats how society functions.

[RJRB 688]

Today’s bulletin.

Co Op  Stannington. 6 customers in the shop .All wearing a mask = 100% compliance.

[Chekhov 488]

17 minutes ago, RJRB said:

There is really little to answer but in a very long thread there are more than enough emotion driven comments without raising “our brave lads” and veiled references to WW2.

Any soldier having served 15 years gave up his personal freedoms on signing on  in order to give unquestioning service to the government of the day.

The truth is that most of us sacrifice some personal freedoms. Thats how society functions.

Never before have we sacrificed personal freedoms to anywhere like the extent we are doing now, never, ever. And all for a virus which, even before vaccines, over 99% of people were surviving and the average age of those dying is about 83, which even these days is a reasonable age. The way some people bang on about Covid deaths and how any sacrifice is worthwhile to avoid any death*, it seems to me there are millions of people out there who have not accepted the fact they are going to die.

 

* Labour journalist and campaigner Mike Buckley "all secondary school pupils [all 3 million of them] wearing masks would be worth it to save one life"

 

Question for you, and the other pro suppressionists on here, is Mike Buckley right ?

 

11 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Today’s bulletin.

Co Op  Stannington. 6 customers in the shop .All wearing a mask = 100% compliance.

It wasn't like that in Wilko yesterday, it was about 80%, which is too high but a good base to build on. I'm confident the proportion will fall over the weeks.

25 minutes ago, Bargepole23 said:

Why is it unanswerable? Why does serving in the forces give you some special knowledge or right to decide what is or isn't permissible? I'm struggling to see how serving in forces and the current covid restrictions are in any way linked or related.

He was not deciding "what is permissible", he is stating he did not serve in the army to defend this sort of draconian society.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Chekhov

[hackey lad 3,955]

10 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Today’s bulletin.

Co Op  Stannington. 6 customers in the shop .All wearing a mask = 100% compliance.

Stop it “ they” don’t like it .