Coronavirus - Part Two.

[Carbuncle 0]

12 minutes ago, petemcewan said:

Another variant .

Are we going to go to plan "B" ?

Right now? No, I do not think the new variant weighs in that calculation ... at the moment. I see our current situation as precarious with a lot healthcare capacity being lost to covid and a concern that the situation could potentially rapidly deteriorate but that is because of delta.

 

The stuff on the new variant is largely speculative although the travel restrictions seem reasonable. There are lots of mutations, particularly in the spike protein so it creates a worry about vaccine effectiveness but interestingly the variant has first appeared in southern Africa where there is less evolutionary pressure from vaccine-induced immunity so I would be equally worried about loss of infection-induced immunity.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Carbuncle

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, RJRB said:

...There is little if any evidence that either side is swayed by the other ...

That's the essential point, isn't it?  Though it's a continued source of bafflement and concern why anyone would be swayed, or even consider being swayed,  by medical or scientific information from internet randoms armed with YouTube videos and links to Facebook.   It's a bizarre and dangerous mix of wilful ignorance, obstinacy and arrogance, mixed with a generous sprinkling of Dunning-Kruger and a whiff of troll.

 

Folk in this thread still fighting to point to reliable sources, and countering point after absurd point, are either seasoned masochists - in which case, knock yourself out - or have patience usually only found in those used to dealing with caffeinated toddlers.  No one is listening; no one wants to listen.  It's a lost cause.  Give it up.

[melthebell 863]

5 minutes ago, Hecate said:

That's the essential point, isn't it?  Though it's a continued source of bafflement and concern why anyone would be swayed, or even consider being swayed,  by medical or scientific information from internet randoms armed with YouTube videos and links to Facebook.   It's a bizarre and dangerous mix of wilful ignorance, obstinacy and arrogance, mixed with a generous sprinkling of Dunning-Kruger and a whiff of troll.

 

Folk in this thread still fighting to point to reliable sources, and countering point after absurd point, are either seasoned masochists - in which case, knock yourself out - or have patience usually only found in those used to dealing with caffeinated toddlers.  No one is listening; no one wants to listen.  It's a lost cause.  Give it up.

exactly how i feel, lol

[magwitch 10]

38 minutes ago, Hecate said:

That's the essential point, isn't it?  Though it's a continued source of bafflement and concern why anyone would be swayed, or even consider being swayed,  by medical or scientific information from internet randoms armed with YouTube videos and links to Facebook.   It's a bizarre and dangerous mix of wilful ignorance, obstinacy and arrogance, mixed with a generous sprinkling of Dunning-Kruger and a whiff of troll.

 

Folk in this thread still fighting to point to reliable sources, and countering point after absurd point, are either seasoned masochists - in which case, knock yourself out - or have patience usually only found in those used to dealing with caffeinated toddlers.  No one is listening; no one wants to listen.  It's a lost cause.  Give it up.

🙂

[Chekhov 488]

2 hours ago, Carbuncle said:

Have you actually read/ skimmed the paper you linked to?

I have but it was months ago. In the time I was prepared to spend on it again we have :

 

The median infection fatality rate across all 51 locations was 0.27% (corrected 0.23%).  (p7 of 37)

 

0.23% = 1 in 435 

[Chekhov 488]

2 hours ago, Longcol said:

>>> As it happens, at the moment, there are 7633 people in hospital with a positive covid test, though that includes many people who are not actually in hospital with Covid, they just happen to test positive. In January it peaked at 39,254, over 5X higher.....

 

England : No mask mandate since July, no vaccine passport
Scotland : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 1st Oct (enforced since 18th Oct)
Wales : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 11th Oct

 

Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test per million popn (26 Nov 21)
England : 106 (i.e the lowest...)
Scotland : 133
Wales : 1648

 

(Populations : Eng = 56.4m, Scotland = 5.5m, Wales = 3.2m)

 

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare  <<< 

 

Shows how effective the vaccine has been.

I absolutely agree, vaccinating people who are over about 45 and/or with existing health issues is crucial to keeping down the hospitalisation and death rates. Vaccinating the rest of the population is not so important, and once you start vaccinating healthy people under about 30 it's  waste of vaccine which could be more morally sent to poorer countries to protect genuinely vulnerable people. But the data below it also shows how ineffective masks and vaccine passports are.

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Chekhov

[melthebell 863]

Dr John Campbells view on the new variant

and who is he?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(nurse)

 

an expert trying to put proper information out there rather than mumbo jumbo

According to Campbell, he was inspired to start his channel to assist people in making informed decisions about their health and came to view it as a counterbalance to what he perceived were other persons on social media "spreading absolutely bonkers – and sometimes dangerous – information"

 

[Chekhov 488]

Just now, melthebell said:

Dr John Campbells view on the new variant

and who is he?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(nurse)

 

an expert trying to put proper information out there rather than mumbo jumbo

There are indeed people spreading mumbo jumbo e.g.

"this virus is indiscriminate",

or

"that person passing you in the park is highly likely to have Covid"

or, worst of all,

contradicting or even deleting forum posts which say "kids are at pretty much zero risk from Covid"....

[Chekhov 488]

3 hours ago, Carbuncle said:

We have seen the pattern where a poster makes a comment and links to supposedly supporting material which the poster has not in fact read ... a lot. Tops used to do it a lot. He was copy-and-pasting from covid sceptic sites and often he had not understood even the material on the covid sceptic site. Of course, one should be more forgiving if it is a mere one-off slip as opposed to systematic bad behaviour.

I tend to give posters the benefit of the doubt when they first post though I am prepared to go to the other extreme and talk nonsense as a way of "mocking" posters once it becomes clear they really are behaving badly as opposed to for example making mistakes. I put mocking in inverted commas because is it really mocking when both parties are in fact transparently speaking nonsense?

Are you kidding !

Most of my "supporting material" is from the BBC, an organisation, if anything, biased in supporting the government's suppression strategy. I think this is more about not wanting to listen to stuff which does not support your position.

 

And I object to the term "covid sceptic", it implies I think Covid is  a hoax, which I do not. I am not even an "anti vaxxer" and have been vaccinated myself, though I think vaccinating people under 30, and certainly under 20, is immoral, as is forcing people to be vaccinated.

I just think the response to Covid has been excessive, in fact I am of the view it is the biggest over reaction in the history of the world, and, in historical terms, that is unarguable because we have never done this for any virus before, ever. Even ones which with a much higher death rate than Covid. The world has indeed gone mad and, even more worryingly, has set a very dangerous precedent.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Chekhov

[melthebell 863]

Interesting expert opinion on Dr Tops recent favourite subject, vaccines causing heart attacks

 

[Longcol 602]

49 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I absolutely agree, vaccinating people who are over about 45 and/or with existing health issues is crucial to keeping down the hospitalisation and death rates. Vaccinating the rest of the population is not so important, and once you start vaccinating healthy people under about 30 it's  waste of vaccine

Why a waste? Doesn't it reduce the amount of virus in circulation - vaccination is about protecting others as well as yourself.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

37 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Are you kidding !

Most of my "supporting material" is from the BBC, an organisation, if anything, biased in supporting the government's suppression strategy.

 

And I object to the term "covid sceptic", it implies I think Covid is  a hoax, which I do not. I am not even an "antii vaxxer" and have been vaccinated myself, though I think vaccinating people under 30, and certainly under 20, is immoral, as is forcing people to be vaccinated.

I just think the response to Covid has been excessive, in fact I am of the view it is the biggest over reaction in the history of the world, and, in historical terms, that is unarguable because we have never done this for any virus before, ever. Even ones which with a much higher death rate than Covid. The world has indeed gone mad and, even more worryingly, has set a very dangerous precedent.

I too object to the term  "covid sceptic".

Some are far-right political opportunists copying the American far-right.

Some are old fashioned Conspiracy Theorists.

No matter which one-they like their MMR predecessors are quite happy to put peoples health at risk to promote their own belief.