Coronavirus - Part Two.

[Carbuncle 0]

You know who are dropping like flies? Conspiracy theorists. It is almost as if there is something out there targeting the unvaccinated.

[The_DADDY 3,475]

1 minute ago, Carbuncle said:

You know who are dropping like flies? Conspiracy theorists. It is almost as if there is something out there targeting the unvaccinated.

Yes it called propaganda. 

[Guest makapaka]

2 hours ago, butlers said:

Jumping ahead a bit there Anna ,there's no evidence it's even more transmissible let alone more vaccine resistant.

What happen to the south American variant that was headline news for a couple of days a couple of months back ?

It’s going to be called…..

 

“Nu”

 

sounds like new.

 

sound.

[Jim Hardie 527]

1 hour ago, top4718 said:

GB News have run a story highlighting links between the vax and heart attacks a cardiologist stated that “the scientists” won’t release data on this as they don’t want to lose “research money”. Very sinister.

 

A couple more ex players Carl Ikeme and John Brayford are the latest to speak out on the subject.

 

Its gathering pace.

 

My decision not to go near this vaccine looks better by the day 🙏

Abstract 10712 
Steven Gundry is a bit controversial, but if he’s right maybe the boosters should be halted for the time being. Too late for me, lol.

[butlers 261]

But, of course.

 

https://www.gripeo.com/dr-steven-gundry/

 

 

A fellow cardiologist writes and check his career history in the About section of his website.

 

https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/2018/07/14/why-you-should-ignore-the-plant-paradox-by-steven-gundry/

Edited November 26, 2021 by butlers

[Bargepole23 337]

8 hours ago, top4718 said:

If you're vaccinated you don't need the booster I assume?

Why would you assume that, not all vaccines work that way.

 

Anyway, back to my original question, who, other than you, is classifying me as unvaccinated? Which government body, which organisation?

 

Come back to me.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Bargepole23

[Chekhov 488]

"You can't be too careful" ? 

Well actually yes you can because there is a cost, social as well as financial, to all these suppression measures. The latest over reaction :

 

"Covid: New heavily mutated variant B.1.1.529 in South Africa raises concern:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59418127

 

Covid variant: UK put safety first over Africa travel - Shapps [travel restrictions reintroduced]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59428398

 

Well travel restrictions haven't kept out any other variant and there is absolutely no reason to think they will suddenly start working now, but, until we just learn to live with Covid and abandon this "can't be too careful" attitude, this will go on, possibly forever. As it happens vaccines work very well to prevent serious illness (though not infection) with all know variants anyway, but that is not actually the main issue. Basically we have got arrogant, we think a new virus is going to emerge and, unlike our forbears for thousands of years, nobody should have to die. Well it's just not like that, we have to be proportionate if we all want to live a normal life.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Chekhov

[Chekhov 488]

11 hours ago, Anna B said:

A new variant? Well that's surprise.... and guess what? The vaccine doesn't work against it.

I wouldn't mind but a conspiracy theorist aquaintance predicted this is exactly what was going to happen back in January 2019. 

This and other things, that have all come to pass. I wouldn't mind but he also predicted the financial crash a full year before it happened, and there was I saying 'have you never heard the saying 'as safe as the bank of England?'  And of course it came as a complete surprise to the politicians didn't it...... 

This is going to run and run.....

Where does it say that ?

But, if  the vaccines are less effective, there should be no change of plan, not unless we want to be locked down every few months, banned from travelling and forced to wear masks (not that they work that well anyway) forever.

Sod that, I don't want to be safe (as in 100% safe) I want to be normal.

[Chekhov 488]

11 hours ago, melthebell said:

why do you have a flu jab every year?

Not everyone does have a flu jab, most people do not in fact, but people certainly are not coerced / forced to do so.

 

11 hours ago, top4718 said:

My next door neighbour died on Tuesday, very ill person who has gone downhill since his wife died in early January, suffered with COPD and its subsequent breathing problems, caught Covid in hospital two days before he sadly died and that has been put as the cause of death on his death certificate, his family are furious.

I have heard many stories like this, far too many for them all to be invented. They actually reckon 25%, possibly more, of people put down as dying of/with Covid did nothing of the sort. They just happened to have Covid when they died

 

Quarter of Covid deaths not caused by virus, new figures show, calls to speed up roadmap as data records people dying 'with' disease rather than 'from' it
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/13/quarter-covid-deaths-not-caused-virus/
The Daily Telegraph 14 Apr 21

Edited November 26, 2021 by Chekhov

[Chekhov 488]

11 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

By the 17th March, there were approximately 170 Covid related deaths in England, let's extrapolate to 200 for GB. Is that the data set you used to make your inference and inform your son? Doesn't seem a very big data set relative to the GB population? Is that the basis of the BBC bar chart? Or is it representing deaths worldwide, where other external factors may have influenced the distribution?

No, I got the data from New Scientist, I think they got it from China, which at that time, I seem to remember, was about 40,000 deaths. I tried to find the actual page, but could not in the time I was prepared to spend on this.

As it happens we still think the BBC / Imperial Colleg est of the death rates was correct, somewhere between 1 in 100 and 1 in 200. But, and this is very interesting, that is for this country, or a similar wealthy western country. The death rate for developing countries is much lower because their populations are younger.

The exception to that is Peru. Their death rate is by far the highest in the world despite their average population age being only 31. Very inconveniently for those advocating mask mandates Peru has had a mask mandate (including outside ! ) from the very start, and now they require "one KN95 mask or one three-layer surgical mask and a cloth mask on top of it", it hasn't helped has it ?

[Carbuncle 0]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

"You can't be too careful" ? 

Well actually yes you can because there is a cost, social as well as financial, to all these suppression measures. The latest over reaction :

 

You're arguing with your own straw man.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Well travel restrictions haven't kept out any other variant and there is absolutely no reason to think they will suddenly start working now, but, until we just learn to live with Covid and abandon this "can't be too careful" attitude, this will go on, possibly forever.

You're arguing with another straw man. Travel restrictions can delay the arrival of a variant and the number of arrivals and that has value. Though, yes, things do have to be kept in proportion.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

12 hours ago, top4718 said:

My next door neighbour died on Tuesday, very ill person who has gone downhill since his wife died in early January, suffered with COPD and its subsequent breathing problems, caught Covid in hospital two days before he sadly died and that has been put as the cause of death on his death certificate, his family are furious.

I have heard many stories like this, far too many for them all to be invented. They actually reckon 25%, possibly more, of people put down as dying of/with Covid did nothing of the sort. They just happened to have Covid when they died

The mythical 'they' but yes all the different methods of measuring deaths as a result of covid (deaths with covid, doctor determined cause of death, excess mortality) are all approximate.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

12 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

By the 17th March, there were approximately 170 Covid related deaths in England, let's extrapolate to 200 for GB. Is that the data set you used to make your inference and inform your son? Doesn't seem a very big data set relative to the GB population? Is that the basis of the BBC bar chart? Or is it representing deaths worldwide, where other external factors may have influenced the distribution?

No, I got the data from New Scientist, I think they got it from China, which at that time, I seem to remember, was about 40,000 deaths. I tried to find the actual page, but could not in the time I was prepared to spend on this.

The point is that the risk of death posed to different age groups in the UK was highly uncertain in mid March 2020. It has changed over time. It is different for different populations. It is still uncertain but better understood now than then.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

The death rate for developing countries is much lower because their populations are younger.

The death rates for rich countries are approximate. For poor countries, with possibly a few exceptions, the death rate is basicly unknown. Hopefully, it is lower. If it is lower, having a younger population might well be the main explanation.

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

The exception to that is Peru. Their death rate is by far the highest in the world despite their average population age being only 31.

Peru's reported death rate is indeed very high. They took the step, at a certain point, of admitting to the World their testing regime was inadequate for the purpose of measuring covid deaths and (I think) substituted excess mortality for covid deaths.

[top4718 838]

2 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Not everyone does have a flu jab, most people do not in fact, but people certainly are not coerced / forced to do so.

 

I have heard many stories like this, far too many for them all to be invented. They actually reckon 25%, possibly more, of people put down as dying of/with Covid did nothing of the sort. They just happened to have Covid when they died

 

Quarter of Covid deaths not caused by virus, new figures show, calls to speed up roadmap as data records people dying 'with' disease rather than 'from' it
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/13/quarter-covid-deaths-not-caused-virus/
The Daily Telegraph 14 Apr 21

Its amazing that any death with Covid even remotely linked is a Covid death but any illness or death linked to the vaccine is dismissed as something else or a coincidence.