Coronavirus - Part Two.

[Rockers rule 673]

10 hours ago, top4718 said:

You can easily spot them next time you venture out into the great wide world, they're wearing useless rags over their faces.

opposed to the quite useful, but not so fetching, Body bag 🙄

Keep safe out there.

 

[altus 540]

11 hours ago, catmiss said:

Is there any point in trading insults? Those who believe in conspiracy theories are not going to change their mindset. It’s up to the rest of us to do what we can to protect ourselves, our nearest and dearest and those we can of the wider population, including the pandemic deniers 

Trading insults, probably not. Refuting their continual false claims, absolutely. If the only people talking about conspiracy theories are their proponents they'll spread wider.

[onewheeldave 22]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:21, melthebell said:

 

Again, you do know how covid works and what it does? its different to flu, flu is respiratory, whereas covid can affect every organ in your body including heart and brain, if you have a dodgy ticker, covid can put additional stress on it which may give you a heart attack...

So can flu-

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/heartdisease.htm

'Studies have shown that flu illness is associated with an increase in heart attacks and stroke. A 2018 study found that the risk of having a heart attack was 6 times higher within a week of a confirmed flu infection.'

 

Generally any kind of illness or infection will have some detrimental effect on the body as a whole.

On 12/10/2021 at 11:21, melthebell said:

 

....... if you have a dodgy ticker, covid can put additional stress on it which may give you a heart attack, so you died of a heart attack, BUT if you were found to have had covid 28 days preceeding they know covid probably played a part.

In that case it would be unwise to class it as 'death by covid'- there are 2 causal factors there, one is covid, the other is heart damage. Quite possibly, in the absence of covid, the person may have lived. Equally, in the absence of heart damage, the person may well have caught covid and survived unharmed.

Edited October 15, 2021 by onewheeldave

[melthebell 863]

20 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

So can flu-

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/highrisk/heartdisease.htm

'Studies have shown that flu illness is associated with an increase in heart attacks and stroke. A 2018 study found that the risk of having a heart attack was 6 times higher within a week of a confirmed flu infection.'

 

Generally any kind of illness or infection will have some detrimental effect on the body as a whole.

In that case it would be unwise to class it as 'death by covid'- there are 2 causal factors there, one is covid, the other is heart damage. Quite possibly, in the absence of covid, the person may have lived. Equally, in the absence of heart damage, the person may well have caught covid and survived unharmed.

That's exactly why it's 28 days after testing positive. You had covid, it probably pushed your body over it's limit, you died because of covid, cause of death, covid, you may have lived a while longer without catching covid

[onewheeldave 22]

3 hours ago, melthebell said:

That's exactly why it's 28 days after testing positive. You had covid, it probably pushed your body over it's limit, you died because of covid, cause of death, covid, you may have lived a while longer without catching covid

Not in the case discussed. There, there are 2 causal factors- a damaged heart and covid.

 

https://tulip.co/blog/what-is-the-difference-between-a-causal-factor-a-root-cause/#:~:text=A causal factor can be,reduced its severity or frequency.

 

"A causal factor can be defined as any “major unplanned, unintended contributor to an incident (a negative event or undesirable condition), that if eliminated would have either prevented the occurrence of the incident or reduced its severity or frequency. Also known as a critical causal factor or contributing cause.”"

[Longcol 601]

3 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

Not in the case discussed. There, there are 2 causal factors- a damaged heart and covid.

 

https://tulip.co/blog/what-is-the-difference-between-a-causal-factor-a-root-cause/#:~:text=A causal factor can be,reduced its severity or frequency.

 

"A causal factor can be defined as any “major unplanned, unintended contributor to an incident (a negative event or undesirable condition), that if eliminated would have either prevented the occurrence of the incident or reduced its severity or frequency. Also known as a critical causal factor or contributing cause.”"

You should have included the the rest of the quote in the blog linked to -

 

"A cause influences a process. If the event isn’t related to a causal process, there can’t be a causal factor. For example, “an alteration of the ball (a mark by a pen, perhaps) is carried with it as the ball goes through the air. On the other hand, an alteration of the shadow (insofar as it is possible) will not be transmitted by the shadow as it moves along.”

 

Not really an example of how deaths are recorded on a death certificate is it?

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Longcol

[Longcol 601]

7 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

In that case it would be unwise to class it as 'death by covid'- there are 2 causal factors there, one is covid, the other is heart damage. Quite possibly, in the absence of covid, the person may have lived. Equally, in the absence of heart damage, the person may well have caught covid and survived unharmed.

Which is totally irrelevant to the cause of death in the case discussed.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Longcol

[onewheeldave 22]

1 hour ago, Longcol said:

You should have included the the rest of the quote in the blog linked to -

 

"A cause influences a process. If the event isn’t related to a causal process, there can’t be a causal factor. For example, “an alteration of the ball (a mark by a pen, perhaps) is carried with it as the ball goes through the air. On the other hand, an alteration of the shadow (insofar as it is possible) will not be transmitted by the shadow as it moves along.”

 

Not really an example of how deaths are recorded on a death certificate is it?

 

Nor is it meant to be. It is an explanation of the concept of causal factors.

49 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Which is totally irrelevant to the cause of death in the case discussed.

Hardly- the case was someone with a 'dodgy ticker' [damaged heart] and covid 

On 12/10/2021 at 11:21, melthebell said:

 

Again, you do know how covid works and what it does? its different to flu, flu is respiratory, whereas covid can affect every organ in your body including heart and brain, if you have a dodgy ticker, covid can put additional stress on it which may give you a heart attack, so you died of a heart attack, BUT if you were found to have had covid 28 days preceeding they know covid probably played a part.

 

[Longcol 601]

1 minute ago, onewheeldave said:

Nor is it meant to be. It is an explanation of the concept of causal factors.

Therefore nowt to do with covid stats then.

 

Glad that's cleared up.

[onewheeldave 22]

1 minute ago, Longcol said:

Therefore nowt to do with covid stats then.

 

Glad that's cleared up.

Causal factors are very relevant to covid stats. Just because a person dies within 28 days of contracting covid, it does not necessarily follow that covid was the cause of death- there may be several causal factors eg damaged heart or other underlying condition.

As long as the person would not have died if the non covid condition had been absent, then covid was not the  cause of death.

[Longcol 601]

12 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

Causal factors are very relevant to covid stats. Just because a person dies within 28 days of contracting covid, it does not necessarily follow that covid was the cause of death- there may be several causal factors eg damaged heart or other underlying condition.

As long as the person would not have died if the non covid condition had been absent, then covid was not the  cause of death.

Which is why I've posted previously how deaths are recorded on UK death certificates and the underlying cause of death is covid in 90% plus  of covid related deaths.

 

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/476263-mask-required/page/52/?tab=comments#comment-8432948

 

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/476544-ivermectin-drug-that-cures-covid-quetions/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-8434774

 

and there are more...................................................................................

Edited October 15, 2021 by Longcol

[melthebell 863]

On 15/10/2021 at 10:49, altus said:

Trading insults, probably not. Refuting their continual false claims, absolutely. If the only people talking about conspiracy theories are their proponents they'll spread wider.

Exactly, they don't use or heed evidence or facts but like racists etc mustn't be ignored