Coronavirus - Part Two.

[The_DADDY 3,475]

8 minutes ago, Longcol said:

While we're on the subject of "unless they have a crystal ball they can't know"..........................

 

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/476263-mask-required/page/84/?tab=comments#comment-8437977

 

"I'm sure when people start dropping like flies (18 to 24 months from now) because they've been part of the experiment and had both jabs................."

Point taken 🤣

[Jim117 72]

Experimental cocktail. So a weakened/dead/inert version of the virus designed to trigger an immune response then. Same as every other vaccine any of us have ever had. Biology 101.

[Baron99 795]

8 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

I'll wait until its no longer experimental, has passed its trials and proves to be safe. 

 

Just a hunch. 

I'm guessing that you'll decide that the 'experimental' stage has been passed & it's safe for you to be jabbed on the exact day when Covid passports are introduced & you need one to get in a pub?   No!  You maintain your long held stance that you're not going to be vaccinated. 

 

Reading a number of posts on SF from a number of different posters, I came to the conclusion weeks ago that some folk should stay well away from the internet, if they are going to be so easily swayed by a 14 year old from the back of beyond in Nabraska, who's just found his mum's laptop passwords & thinks it'd be funny to start an Internet conspiracy about the Covid jab. 

 

Little does he know, how's he's managed to influence a small number of SF posters. 

[onewheeldave 22]

10 hours ago, sibon said:

That’s because the refusenik parents are indeed responsible for the rise in measles infections.

 

 

Not really, as many of them would have happily accepted the single measles vaccine had not the authorities withdrawn it 

10 hours ago, Longcol said:

Where did I say it could - although AFAIK it's caught up on about two thirds of cases. Now if we keep unneccessary covid cases out of hospitals it could do better. How are you helping?

Just like Top below, I'm helping by doing the work necessary to be fit and healthy with a good BMI and excellent diet.

10 hours ago, top4718 said:

There are vaccinated people in hospitals, I'm helping by staying fit, eating healthily and exercising so my immune system can cope with a heavy flu and not burdening the health system.

 

Its a pity the government were offering kebabs and McDonalds in exchange for jabs, not really that helpful to the current situation.

 

Excellent point about the junk food bribery. Wasn't there also a 'free food' thing during the first lockdown that primarily involved junk food? One of the reasons so many are vulnerable to covid is the high percentage of the population who are obese/overweight, type 2 diabetic/pre-diabetic and/or with heart disease as a direct result of their overconsumption of said junk foods along with an aversion to exercise.

 

10 hours ago, butlers said:

It's almost enough to make you come round to the US healthcare " system".

People choosing not to take up vaccine are seeing thier insurance premiums go up

 

10 hours ago, sibon said:

I’d like to see a proper invite to the unvaccinated. Give them a time to turn up, and a bill for insurance if they don’t.

 

Of course they could still choose to not turn up, and not pay the insurance premium. 
 

At that point, I think the NHS should be out.

You guys really are into the Chinese govt methods of oppressive population control by civil liberty removal, aren't you? How will you feel when you watch your children/grandchildren living in a totalitarian regime? Because once that method of population control gets going, it won't stop at vaccines. Criticise the party in power- that's OK, you've got free speech, but, don't expect to keep your passport, or, be employed.

[BigPP 97]

10 hours ago, top4718 said:

No what they did is protect the vulnerable, let the young build up immunity and keep their country open for business, the perfect way to handle the situation.

 

You make up quotes to suit your narrative so can't be trusted.

I didn't say that at all but your probably a legal expert as well Walter so I'd better watch what I say.

Sweden didn't protect the vulnerable.

 

Look here: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths

 

 

 

Anyone who still thinks Sweden got it right must think human life is very cheap.

 

[onewheeldave 22]

10 hours ago, sibon said:

There’s no coercion in the US system.

 

Everyone gets to choose what they do with their health. Finances permitting.

That's OK then, only the poor are coerced

 

 

10 hours ago, sibon said:

The thing I understand least is that the anti-vaxxers actually want the vaccines to fail.

 

That’s a truly sociopathic stance.

 

Maybe one of them could explain why they want the one  thing that can set us free, to fail.

I think to say it's the thing you understand least may be a bit omptimistic

The 'anti-vaxxers' aren't anti vax- they are either anti-covid vax, or [like me] anti- compulsory covid vax: that is one of the things you are not understanding, despite having been informed multiple times. The proof is the fact that both I, and several others [who you have labelled as 'anti-vax'] have actually had some vaccines recently- people who have vaccines are clearly not anti-vaxxers, even if they are critical of the covid vax, or, like me, oppose compulsory/coerced covid vaccinations. vaccines

 

 

[onewheeldave 22]

 

10 hours ago, sibon said:

It clearly works and it’s clearly safe.

 

Thats all.

Undeniable fact- it has had no long term safety testing, and, only long-term testing can establish 100% that it is safe.

That's not to say it is wrong to argue that it almost certainly is safe using methods other than long term safety testing, but, only long term testing can establish is is definitely safe [assuming zero corruption amongst the testing agencies of course]

10 hours ago, Longcol said:

So what does the vaccine contain that could cause long term effects?

Again, a reasonable question, but, be aware, only long term testing can establish definite safety, and, there has been none.

10 hours ago, Longcol said:

Perhaps scientists - pretty good at this sort of stuff or we'd still be worried about smallpox, polio, measles, mumps etc.

So there have been no previous vaccine disasters then? Because they were overseen by scientists too.

[onewheeldave 22]

10 hours ago, sibon said:

You should get jabbed. Then we could all get on with stuff.

Not true. Almost certainly he would have to get multiple future jabs and boosters due to the 'variations' of covid that will likely crop up continously.

9 hours ago, Longcol said:

Computer simulation can work faster than real time these days - far faster than even 10 years ago (and certainly faster than when we went to the moon all those years ago)  and we had hundreds of scientists across the globe sharing and reviewing information on a daily basis, something that's never happened before on this scale.

 

Better than relying on Mike Yeadon.

 

 

 

But not better than long term testing. I'm not saying computer simulations are without their uses, but again, they also have a solid track record of being spectacularly wrong.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

... Reading a number of posts on SF from a number of different posters, I came to the conclusion weeks ago that some folk should stay well away from the internet, if they are going to be so easily swayed by a 14 year old from the back of beyond in Nabraska, who's just found his mum's laptop passwords & thinks it'd be funny to start an Internet conspiracy about the Covid jab. 

 

Little does he know, how's he's managed to influence a small number of SF posters. 

More like a bunch of troll farms and bot nets out of Russia and China.  But I agree with the point.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, BigPP said:

... Anyone who still thinks Sweden got it right must think human life is very cheap.

 

There's recent interesting research exploring the established connection between belief in  conspiracy theories and Machiavellianism, collective narcissism and psychopathy to belief in covid conspiracy theories (eg. Hughes and Machan Personality and Individual Differences 171 (2021) 110559).

[Guest makapaka]

38 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

Not true. Almost certainly he would have to get multiple future jabs and boosters due to the 'variations' of covid that will likely crop up continously.

But not better than long term testing. I'm not saying computer simulations are without their uses, but again, they also have a solid track record of being spectacularly wrong.

Do you qualifications and experience  on determining the efficacy and safety of vaccines?

 

 

[Carbuncle 0]

3 hours ago, Jim117 said:

Experimental cocktail. So a weakened/dead/inert version of the virus designed to trigger an immune response then. Same as every other vaccine any of us have ever had. Biology 101.

This is not right. According to wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine ) second paragraph:

 

"Twenty vaccines are authorized by at least one national regulatory authority for public use: two RNA vaccines (Pfizer–BioNTech and Moderna), nine conventional inactivated vaccines (BBIBP-CorV, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, CoronaVac, Covaxin, CoviVac, COVIran Barakat, Minhai-Kangtai, QazVac, and WIBP-CorV), five viral vector vaccines (Sputnik Light, Sputnik V, Oxford–AstraZeneca, Convidecia, and Janssen), and four protein subunit vaccines (Abdala, EpiVacCorona, MVC-COV1901, Soberana 02, and ZF2001)."

 

In the particular case of the UK no "weakened/dead/inert version of the virus" is being used.

 

Even if a weakened version of the virus were being used, under ideal circumstances one would still do long term trials. Of course, circumstances are not ideal.