Coronavirus - Part Two.

[tinfoilhat 11]

20 minutes ago, The_DADDY said:

Don't be hard on yourself. You aren't the 1st person taken in by this whole thing and you won't be the last. 

You think it's a con? Covid is real?

24 minutes ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

I've had both my Covid jabs, although I did try to consider the potential risks before doing so and I do respect the views of people who are vax-hesitant or who are out and out anti-vaxxers. All the official advice from the Government, the Government scientists etc, was to go ahead and have the vax as soon as it was offered but I don't consider the anti-vaxxers to all be conspiracy-theorists  or paranoid lunatics - plenty of them seem to be totally rational, highly respected doctors, scientists & other health professionals who genuinely seemed to believe that the vaccine was insufficiently trialled, carried lots of potential future health risks and was just another way for the big Pharmaceutical companies and their cronies to make yet more money.

 

Having considered both sides of the argument, I decided to go ahead and have the 2 jabs because I naively believed that it would make me less likely to catch or spread Covid - or mean that I would be less likely to get seriously ill if I did catch Covid. I also naively believed that a large uptake of the vaccination programme would  help free us from the tyranny of lockdowns, mask-wearing and endless, costly PCR testing to travel and having to quarantine and/or isolate on return.

I now feel that I've been conned into taking the jabs, because those of us who are fully vaccinated are being treated exactly the same as those who haven't been vaccinated at all. I feel that I've taken a potentially risky vaccine, yet I can still catch or spread Covid, I still have to wear masks and abide by the remaining lockdown and distancing rules and I'm no better off or more free than I was before. Two of my friends have recently been to and returned from a holiday in an amber-list country. Both are in their 60's and in good health. One was fully vaccinated and the other has refused to be vaxxed, yet they both had to take and pay for tests on the way out and the way back and both are expected to self-isolate now they are home.

 

If I could go back a couple of months, I too would have refused the vaccine. Too bloody late now  - and it's my own fault for being a gullible sheep, too quick to trust the official advice! 

But if you catch it, you probably won't die.

 

So there's that. 

[Mister M 1,625]

25 minutes ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

I've had both my Covid jabs, although I did try to consider the potential risks before doing so and I do respect the views of people who are vax-hesitant or who are out and out anti-vaxxers. All the official advice from the Government, the Government scientists etc, was to go ahead and have the vax as soon as it was offered but I don't consider the anti-vaxxers to all be conspiracy-theorists  or paranoid lunatics - plenty of them seem to be totally rational, highly respected doctors, scientists & other health professionals who genuinely seemed to believe that the vaccine was insufficiently trialled, carried lots of potential future health risks and was just another way for the big Pharmaceutical companies and their cronies to make yet more money.

 

Having considered both sides of the argument, I decided to go ahead and have the 2 jabs because I naively believed that it would make me less likely to catch or spread Covid - or mean that I would be less likely to get seriously ill if I did catch Covid. I also naively believed that a large uptake of the vaccination programme would  help free us from the tyranny of lockdowns, mask-wearing and endless, costly PCR testing to travel and having to quarantine and/or isolate on return.

I now feel that I've been conned into taking the jabs, because those of us who are fully vaccinated are being treated exactly the same as those who haven't been vaccinated at all. I feel that I've taken a potentially risky vaccine, yet I can still catch or spread Covid, I still have to wear masks and abide by the remaining lockdown and distancing rules and I'm no better off or more free than I was before. Two of my friends have recently been to and returned from a holiday in an amber-list country. Both are in their 60's and in good health. One was fully vaccinated and the other has refused to be vaxxed, yet they both had to take and pay for tests on the way out and the way back and both are expected to self-isolate now they are home.

 

If I could go back a couple of months, I too would have refused the vaccine. Too bloody late now  - and it's my own fault for being a gullible sheep, too quick to trust the official advice! 

But given that you have had your vaccines, you are much less likely to become seriously ill from Covid

[The_DADDY 3,474]

Just now, tinfoilhat said:

You think it's a con? Covid is real?

Of course it's real. The reaction however is 100% a scam. 

Having said that if anyone wants to be injected by a cocktail that is STILL in its trials then that's up to them. 

Personally I'd rather give it a swerve. 

[Carbuncle 0]

15 minutes ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

I've had both my Covid jabs, although I did try to consider the potential risks before doing so and I do respect the views of people who are vax-hesitant or who are out and out anti-vaxxers. All the official advice from the Government, the Government scientists etc, was to go ahead and have the vax as soon as it was offered but I don't consider the anti-vaxxers to all be conspiracy-theorists  or paranoid lunatics - plenty of them seem to be totally rational, highly respected doctors, scientists & other health professionals who genuinely seemed to believe that the vaccine was insufficiently trialled, carried lots of potential future health risks and was just another way for the big Pharmaceutical companies and their cronies to make yet more money.

 

Having considered both sides of the argument, I decided to go ahead and have the 2 jabs because I naively believed that it would make me less likely to catch or spread Covid - or mean that I would be less likely to get seriously ill if I did catch Covid. I also naively believed that a large uptake of the vaccination programme would  help free us from the tyranny of lockdowns, mask-wearing and endless, costly PCR testing to travel and having to quarantine and/or isolate on return.

I now feel that I've been conned into taking the jabs, because those of us who are fully vaccinated are being treated exactly the same as those who haven't been vaccinated at all. I feel that I've taken a potentially risky vaccine, yet I can still catch or spread Covid, I still have to wear masks and abide by the remaining lockdown and distancing rules and I'm no better off or more free than I was before. Two of my friends have recently been to and returned from a holiday in an amber-list country. Both are in their 60's and in good health. One was fully vaccinated and the other has refused to be vaxxed, yet they both had to take and pay for tests on the way out and the way back and both are expected to self-isolate now they are home.

 

If I could go back a couple of months, I too would have refused the vaccine. Too bloody late now  - and it's my own fault for being a gullible sheep, too quick to trust the official advice! 

I am strongly pro-vaccine but I sympathize with what you have said regarding feeling conned.

 

From my pro-vax point of view, the government, its public-facing medical advisers and the news media have all taken a line which amounts to 'conning the public for its own good'. I think this is the wrong way to behave even though my reading of the situation is that the vaccines are delivering tremendous benefit.

[butlers 261]

Public heath England report 95 percent of nhs staff now fully vaccinated.

I believe it's about 300 plus nhs staff died of covid

[FIRETHORN1 58]

I do accept that having the jabs may make me less likely to die or get seriously ill if I catch Covid.... that is , if I am to believe what the government is telling us. I think a big part of the problem is that the government and mainstream media is constantly telling us how wonderful the vaccine is, but they are not giving a platform to anyone who expresses doubts about it - and that makes me a bit suspicious. I don't for one minute believe some of the more far-fetched theories that the vaccine is a deliberately-made toxin designed to poison us all, or to inject microchips into us, but I do believe that the vaccine is in it's infancy and that there may be some negative side effects to it too - be it blood clots, changes to the structure of DNA etc.  I think the views of the perfectly genuine doctors and scientists who doubt the vaccine are being suppressed  and this makes me wonder if any evidence of serious side effects, or deaths, resulting from the vaccine is also being suppressed.  The vaccine may be a wonderful thing, or it may not. If it's as wonderful as we are being told, then why are we still expected to socially distance, wear masks and take tests? We are only being allowed to hear one side of the story because the governments and the big Pharmas want us to believe in the vaccine, to do their bidding and make money for them.  I just think we should be allowed to hear all sides of the story .

[tinfoilhat 11]

14 minutes ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

I do accept that having the jabs may make me less likely to die or get seriously ill if I catch Covid.... that is , if I am to believe what the government is telling us. I think a big part of the problem is that the government and mainstream media is constantly telling us how wonderful the vaccine is, but they are not giving a platform to anyone who expresses doubts about it - and that makes me a bit suspicious. I don't for one minute believe some of the more far-fetched theories that the vaccine is a deliberately-made toxin designed to poison us all, or to inject microchips into us, but I do believe that the vaccine is in it's infancy and that there may be some negative side effects to it too - be it blood clots, changes to the structure of DNA etc.  I think the views of the perfectly genuine doctors and scientists who doubt the vaccine are being suppressed  and this makes me wonder if any evidence of serious side effects, or deaths, resulting from the vaccine is also being suppressed.  The vaccine may be a wonderful thing, or it may not. If it's as wonderful as we are being told, then why are we still expected to socially distance, wear masks and take tests? We are only being allowed to hear one side of the story because the governments and the big Pharmas want us to believe in the vaccine, to do their bidding and make money for them.  I just think we should be allowed to hear all sides of the story .

It is not possible for an AZ vaccine to change your DNA any more than a flu jab vaccine will change your DNA.

[butlers 261]

There's no "may"protect you,look at today's figures.

There's plenty of information out there about the blot clot risks hence they change the guidence on who should get each vaccine.

The adverse reactions ,that's a very broad term are listed in the ONS ,it's a big number why would they not have covered that up.

The people saying it's a trial will doubtless say after 3 years,ah but there might be a negative effect kick in at 8 years...

There's been over 2 billion doses of vaccine given so far world wide.

When the virus was doing it's worse over 1000 people a day for 24 consecutive days died.

Not sure it's this thread or not but two registered nurses have been struck off for propoagating their version of the truth 

They had many followers and said the vaccine causes infertility ,the nhs was acting like " Nazis" and other baseless scaremongering.

 

It's all looking well for the 21st and we can really start putting the restrictions behind us.

It's noticable now ,I barely see anyone wearing masks in situations were there is in effect no risk

[Guest makapaka]

2 minutes ago, butlers said:

It's all looking well for the 21st and we can really start putting the restrictions behind us.

Absolutely no chance.

 

[the_bloke 17]

24 minutes ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

I do accept that having the jabs may make me less likely to die or get seriously ill if I catch Covid.... that is , if I am to believe what the government is telling us. I think a big part of the problem is that the government and mainstream media is constantly telling us how wonderful the vaccine is, but they are not giving a platform to anyone who expresses doubts about it - and that makes me a bit suspicious. I don't for one minute believe some of the more far-fetched theories that the vaccine is a deliberately-made toxin designed to poison us all, or to inject microchips into us, but I do believe that the vaccine is in it's infancy and that there may be some negative side effects to it too - be it blood clots, changes to the structure of DNA etc.  I think the views of the perfectly genuine doctors and scientists who doubt the vaccine are being suppressed  and this makes me wonder if any evidence of serious side effects, or deaths, resulting from the vaccine is also being suppressed.  The vaccine may be a wonderful thing, or it may not. If it's as wonderful as we are being told, then why are we still expected to socially distance, wear masks and take tests? We are only being allowed to hear one side of the story because the governments and the big Pharmas want us to believe in the vaccine, to do their bidding and make money for them.  I just think we should be allowed to hear all sides of the story .

What perfectly genuine doctors and scientists? The people supposedly being suppressed all seem to be crackpots and nutters desperately publishing videos on Vimeo to pay for their last malpractice lawsuit. There's a certain moral duty in not publishing alternative viewpoints if said viewpoint is plainly wrong and someone could die as a result. It's like me wearing a fire proof suit and standing outside a burning house telling you that this suit is dangerous because people can die wearing it in fires, so I'm telling you to walk in the burning house without it.

 

A lack of understanding about the pharmaceutical industry and a propensity to believe charlatans doesn't make the vaccine wrong.

[butlers 261]

Someone in another thread posted that there MAY be 20 deaths that will be put down to the vaccine.Thats on approx 50 million injections

But the estimation was over 18,000 lives had been saved by said injections to date and that will be far higher now.

Again there are clips online of anti vax " campaigners" outside  vaccine centres telling people many hundreds have been killed by the vaccine This is a lie.

 

[Carbuncle 0]

1 hour ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

I do accept that having the jabs may make me less likely to die or get seriously ill if I catch Covid.... that is , if I am to believe what the government is telling us.

There are other sources of information apart from the government and our MSM. I am not very trusting of either when it comes to 'science' so I have tended to burrow into other sources.

 

The scientists who did the clinical trials have been publishing their research. Academic journals have generally dropped their paywalls for covid research so you can see the publications. The main AstraZeneca trials data paper was a real warts-and-all affair. The trials had their share of hiccoughs as is revealed by the paper. I have a soft spot for scientists and tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

You can see stuff from other countries. The (US) FDA has put online video of the discussions of the independent advisory panels who considered the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines prior to approval. They also published the briefing documents for these panels. The Europeans were not so impressed with the AstraZeneca vaccine and made public statements about it. Some of their public health institutes released information and some of this is even available in English.

 

I think the case counts, death counts and hospitalization counts that are published each day are probably fairly reliable. I can see that the relationship between numbers of cases and numbers of deaths (two or three weeks later) has changed. We are now seeing relatively fewer deaths!

 

Unless there is a truly massive conspiracy going on, good information is out there. In my view, most of the pro-vaccine slipperiness is largely confined to the government (narrowly defined), their medical advisor spokespeople and the news media. The overall message is largely right (IMO): the vaccine is a boon. In detail the message is slippery.  For example: 'it's safe' then 'oh everything has side effects' then 'the contraceptive pill gives women blood clots too' then 'oh you mean very rare blood clots in the brain, yes there are a few of those'  and then finally 'It is really not that surprising to find some problems when you inject millions and millions of doses into people's arms'. I am sorry you got conned by them, I don't know your personal situation but I suspect you would have wanted the vaccine if you had been given all the relevant information in an open and honest fashion upfront ... ie with informed consent.