L00b 441 #4465 Posted March 26, 2021 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RollingJ 1,993 #4466 Posted March 26, 2021 Coded message, @L00b? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RJRB 684 #4467 Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, RollingJ said: Coded message, @L00b? I am sure that we are supposed to read much into the statistics provided by L00b,and nothing that reflects well on the U.K. Possibly so but it is an inescapable fact that wealthier countries will vaccinate their own population ,and comparisons between one country / blocs and others will highlight the inequalities. Perhaps ultimately this will be the best way forward. Do you spread a scarce resource thinly around the globe or use it in a more concentrated way? Economics also play a part. Do some of the producers aim for the more lucrative markets.This certainly seems to be the case. The only long term progress for the world population is to increase production so that all countries have reached the requisite level of vaccinations to tip the balance,and this prospect still remains distant. Just read comments of West 77 which I agree with. This is no time for anything other than cooperation. Edited March 26, 2021 by RJRB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RollingJ 1,993 #4468 Posted March 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, RJRB said: I am sure that we are supposed to read much into the statistics provided by L00b,and nothing that reflects well on the U.K. Possibly so but it is an inescapable fact that wealthier countries will vaccinate their own population ,and comparisons between one country / blocs and others will highlight the inequalities. Perhaps ultimately this will be the best way forward. Do you spread a scarce resource thinly around the globe or use it in a more concentrated way? Economics also play a part. Do some of the producers aim for the more lucrative markets.This certainly seems to be the case. The only long term progress for the world population is to increase production so that all countries have reached the requisite level of vaccinations to tip the balance,and this prospect still remains distant. I just read typical L00bism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b 441 #4469 Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, RollingJ said: Coded message, @L00b? No, simply informing the debate a little more, in relation to the sub-topic of vaccine nationalism/triumphalism. You can choose to read that post, or ‘coded’ whatever into that post -because I happened to post it rather than another- however you want: them’s the facts just the same. Giz a shout when you feel like playing the ball sometime. Edited March 26, 2021 by L00b Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike 10 #4470 Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) The one thing the graph in L00bs post gets wrong and is misleading is that the EU as an organisation have not exported 46 million doses of vaccine or even 41.6 which is more the more accurate figure. It's the number of vaccines the vaccine manufacturers themselves have exported out of the EU. Edited March 26, 2021 by apelike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
altus 534 #4471 Posted March 26, 2021 39 minutes ago, RJRB said: Economics also play a part. Do some of the producers aim for the more lucrative markets.This certainly seems to be the case. The UK are paying about twice per dose for the AZ vaccine as the EU are. It's entirely possible that, faced with being unable to meet all production promises, AZ are prioritising those paying more rather than restrict deliveries to all proportionate to levels of outstanding orders. If that is the case, you can understand the EU being so upset. It would be politically impossible for AZ to admit that's what is happening though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat 11 #4472 Posted March 26, 2021 9 minutes ago, altus said: The UK are paying about twice per dose for the AZ vaccine as the EU are. It's entirely possible that, faced with being unable to meet all production promises, AZ are prioritising those paying more rather than restrict deliveries to all proportionate to levels of outstanding orders. If that is the case, you can understand the EU being so upset. It would be politically impossible for AZ to admit that's what is happening though. I think there's plenty of blame to go around but politicians from the EU need a healthy amount heading their way. First they gave all responsibility for purchasing of vaccines to the EU, then - even worse - they've queued up to rubbish it, question it's worth to the point great swathes of the EU population don't want it (I read only 20% of French over 65s trust it). It's a useful stick to beat us with but we could export tonnes of it over there and I have great doubt wether it will get used promptly, sat in a fridge until it's PR improves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RollingJ 1,993 #4473 Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, L00b said: No, simply informing the debate a little more, in relation to the sub-topic of vaccine nationalism/triumphalism. You can choose to read that post, or ‘coded’ whatever into that post -because I happened to post it rather than another- however you want: them’s the facts just the same. Giz a shout when you feel like playing the ball sometime. Very informative - no indication what it was about, its source or anything. It was, I assume, a link, but didn't read as such. BTW: you are beginning to sound a bit desperate. Edited March 26, 2021 by RollingJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b 441 #4474 Posted March 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, RollingJ said: Very informative - no indication what it was about, its source or anything. It was, I assume, a link, but didn't read as such. Vaccine production, in millions of doses, per major economy bloc, with indication of volume split between domestic use and export. Published by The Independent, sourced from Airfinity. It's all there, for those bothered enough to look, rather than pick an argument for argument's sake. <sigh> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b 441 #4475 Posted March 26, 2021 1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said: I think there's plenty of blame to go around but politicians from the EU need a healthy amount heading their way. First they gave all responsibility for purchasing of vaccines to the EU, then - even worse - they've queued up to rubbish it, question it's worth to the point great swathes of the EU population don't want it (I read only 20% of French over 65s trust it). It's a useful stick to beat us with but we could export tonnes of it over there and I have great doubt wether it will get used promptly, sat in a fridge until it's PR improves. The demand is severely pent-up. For every over-65 getting gaslit over the vaccine potency in France and elsewhere (sure, it's not just Brit OAPs who can get gaslit and anxious over invented problems), there are tens of thousands of under-65s who would drop everything and go get vaccinated on the spot. Some French GPs recently went on record as cold-calling their registered patients outside of the 'correct' ranges, when nobody in the 'correct' range shows up through 'fear of the AZ' , precisely to avoid wastage. It's exactly why Castex went and got his AZ vaccine 'out of turn', to help dispel this myth. The bulk of grumbling in the EU is about delayed vaccine approval (justified IMHO) and stalled vaccination programmes, not centralised and coordinated procurement, which has worked reasonably well. The reason vaccination programmes are stalled, is because they were initially devised and estimated based on manufacturers' contractual delivery commitments (that have never been met yet) and because the EU respected its exporting commitments in the meantime. The situation will improve, as manufacturers are made to respect their contractual commitments through export controls. Unless they're not bothered about doing business with the EU in the long-term, of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RollingJ 1,993 #4476 Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, L00b said: Vaccine production, in millions of doses, per major economy bloc, with indication of volume split between domestic use and export. Published by The Independent, sourced from Airfinity. It's all there, for those bothered enough to look, rather than pick an argument for argument's sake. <sigh> <sigh> <sigh> - so why not kind of inform us what it is about, so we know what we are likely to find? Or is that too hard? Edited March 26, 2021 by RollingJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...