Coronavirus - Part Two.

[petemcewan 27]

There's a Challenge Trial  taking place somewhere in the UK-but it seems to have fallen off the radar.

A challenge trial is where you give the volunteer the virus then you give them the vaccine.

[Dardandec 32]

11 hours ago, apelike said:

I did mention on here a while ago that I though it was a sensible thing to do a test first but it was shouted down rapidly by people on here as a waste of time and money.

I don't recall you mentioning covid testing pre vaccine on here but I do recall you mentioning anti-body testing which is a waste of time and money. Could you please link me to the covid test posts please.

[apelike 10]

2 hours ago, Dardandec said:

I don't recall you mentioning covid testing pre vaccine on here but I do recall you mentioning anti-body testing which is a waste of time and money. Could you please link me to the covid test posts please.

Why do you think it is a waste of time and money?

[enntee 10]

10 hours ago, petemcewan said:

There's a Challenge Trial  taking place somewhere in the UK-but it seems to have fallen off the radar.

A challenge trial is where you give the volunteer the virus then you give them the vaccine.

Basic testing during development of vaccines.

Actually the other way round ... volunteers are given either a placebo or a vaccine and then exposed to the virus.

UK CoVid19 vaccine trials are now ending as it becomes unethical to deny a volunteer a vaccination if their turn comes along in the NHS programme.

 

Enntee,

Thank you for the correction. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by enntee

[Victor Meldrew 33]

14 hours ago, enntee said:

Basic testing during development of vaccines.

Actually the other way round ... volunteers are given either a placebo or a vaccine and then exposed to the virus.

 

Wouldn't it be rather dangerous giving someone a placebo and then exposing them to Covid unless you had a fool-proof treatment for it?

[petemcewan 27]

Victor Meldrew,

IMO the answer to your question is  Yes.

 

The ethical principles supporting the use of placebos in clinical trials are drawn from Utilitarianism. But not everybody agrees.

One can argue to doomsday  for and against using placebos.

My own ethical principles causes me to find Utilitarianism not very attractive.

 

I've put a couple of links just in case you'd like to dive deeper into

Moral Philosophy and its role in  medicine and science.

 

 

https://jme.bmj.com/content/30/6/55

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4778182/

 

Quote

The ethical problem most frequently raised regarding the administration of the placebo is that the doctor is deceiving the patient. The patient wants effective treatment; instead he receives a placebo. On these grounds, some have maintained that placebo treatment will always be unethical, a violation of the patient’s right to be honestly and fully informed about treatment.

The above is position that I  support.

At the end of the day when one is sick and in need of treatment. I would say to the: Doc/Scientist/ Researcher ,"give me the damn medicine and you take the sweetie".

Edited February 1, 2021 by petemcewan

[El Cid 214]

10 hours ago, Victor Meldrew said:

Wouldn't it be rather dangerous giving someone a placebo and then exposing them to Covid unless you had a fool-proof treatment for it?

I believe they werent purposely exposed, but just went about their normal lives.

It would only be unethical to do it with elderly people, who can get the vaccine; months untill younger people can get it.

[petemcewan 27]

 

 

https://jme.bmj.com/content/30/6/551

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by petemcewan

[apelike 10]

52 minutes ago, petemcewan said:

Victor Meldrew.

It's an ethical issue. I personally agree with the above.

One can argue to doomsday regarding the ethics of placebo in clinical trials.

The moral philosophy  pressed into justifying the placebo is Utilitarianism. But not everyone agrees.

 

https://jme.bmj.com/content/30/6/551

 

But the people involved in those trials know beforehand that they may or may not receive a placebo so its hardly an ethical issue after all it is a trial. As stated in the link, "Secondly, it is demonstrated that its use does not always entail deception." It would be unethical if I was called in for a vaccination and then given a placebo.

Edited February 1, 2021 by apelike

[El Cid 214]

On 30/01/2021 at 18:57, Mister M said:

Backbench Tory MP Steve Baker, who is incredibly influential on a lot of Conservative MPs, and head of the ERG has been sabre rattling right throughout the period of the pandemic how the lockdown restrictions should be lifted

 

In theory, a lockdown should only last two weeks. Anyone with the virrus should report all contacts and the app would also report close contacts. If everyone had been obeying lockdown rules, the virus should be gone IN FOURTEEN DAYS.

Some countries have zero COVID, some countries are still struggling.

[*_ash_* 88]

On the radio, new variant... we're going to test a whole postcode...

 

what?!

 

All the answers to how it's done with Sheffield guy in China

If they can do it, why can't we?!

 

https://youtu.be/FWjD9V2dyF4

 

[nightrider 13]

13 minutes ago, *_ash_* said:

On the radio, new variant... we're going to test a whole postcode...

 

what?!

 

All the answers to how it's done with Sheffield guy in China

If they can do it, why can't we?!

 

https://youtu.be/FWjD9V2dyF4

 

We can do it. But its a government choice not to do so.