Coronavirus - Part Two.

[L00b 441]

23 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Somebody in the EU needs to take a deep breath and calm down.

 

BBC News - Brexit: EU introduces controls on vaccines to NI
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55864442

It's not auspicious, and the way the Commission went about it makes for poor optics.

 

Expect a corrective U-turn very soon...

 

...or, as the case may turn out, an explainer to justify the decision.

[El Cid 214]

2 hours ago, West 77 said:

Scrutiny is happening every day as the vaccine program progresses.  The big issue now is how long are all people including those both in good health and those with underlying health problems are protected after receiving doses of a covid19 vaccine. As every day passes the scientists learn more in order to help fight the coronavirus pandemic.

Indeed, we need to learn. Gibraltar has had 6 deaths after they had the vaccine. Delay will mean people dont get the vaccine in time.

Gibraltar will be an easy country to study, although it maybe rather small.

The flu vaccine is stated to need 2 weeks to develop an immunity, I have only read 3 weeks for the COVID vaccine.

Are they just playing safe or does it work differently, maybe some vaccines work faster/better?

 

The group most vulnerable to non-pandemic flu, the elderly, benefits least from the flu vaccine. There are multiple reasons behind this steep decline in vaccine efficacy, the most common of which are the declining immunological function and frailty associated with advanced age. In a non-pandemic year, a person in the United States aged 50–64 is nearly ten times more likely to die an influenza-associated death than a younger person, and a person over age 65 is over ten times more likely to die an influenza-associated death than the 50–64 age group.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine#Effectiveness

[tinfoilhat 11]

7 minutes ago, L00b said:

It's not auspicious, and the way the Commission went about it makes for poor optics.

 

Expect a corrective U-turn very soon...

 

...or, as the case may turn out, an explainer to justify the decision.

I'm intrigued into way they are doing it? Do they think AZ are on the fiddle? More over do they think they're on the fiddle at Boris' behest? They are coming out of this very badly.

[L00b 441]

19 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

I'm intrigued into way they are doing it? Do they think AZ are on the fiddle? More over do they think they're on the fiddle at Boris' behest? They are coming out of this very badly.

Apparently a delivery note was found by investigators, for a very early shipment of vaccine from AZ's Belgian factory to NI, which (if it happened) puts AZ in breach of its contractual obligations to the EU about the initial 300m doses.

 

That breach would then necessarily be either wilful (on gvt order or out of patriotism or ...) or accidental. The export control is designed to mitigate reoccurrence of that breach irrespectively of whether it is wilful or accidental: customs officer would just seize the shipments in Zeebrugge or wherever else they leave Belgium.

 

But this is all still looking very confused, there is some doubt about whether the Commission actually took a/the decision under Article 16 at all, and it wasn't instead some unauthorised disclosure of preparatory materials (the Commission had been talking about Art.16 for quite a while). 

 

It's a political mess. But at least, it's not an illegal one (if the decision was actually taken), because Art.16 allows unilateral invoking without consultation in an emergency (which this would be, if the underlying facts are averred).

Edited January 29, 2021 by L00b

[tinfoilhat 11]

22 minutes ago, L00b said:

Apparently a delivery note was found by investigators, for a very early shipment of vaccine from AZ's Belgian factory to NI, which (if it happened) puts AZ in breach of its contractual obligations to the EU about the initial 300m doses.

 

That breach would then necessarily be either wilful (on gvt order or out of patriotism or ...) or accidental. The export control is designed to mitigate reoccurrence of that breach irrespectively of whether it is wilful or accidental: customs officer would just seize the shipments in Zeebrugge or wherever else they leave Belgium.

 

But this is all still looking very confused, there is some doubt about whether the Commission actually took a/the decision under Article 16 at all, and it wasn't instead some unauthorised disclosure of preparatory materials (the Commission had been talking about Art.16 for quite a while). 

 

It's a political mess. But at least, it's not an illegal one (if the decision was actually taken), because Art.16 allows unilateral invoking without consultation in an emergency (which this would be, if the underlying facts are averred).

I hate our government. They're incompetent liars in the main but they got in early (to the horror of many scientists  around the world), gambled and won.  To the untrained mind like mine, its a contract row.

 

EU citizens are watching our clown car of a government smash nearly 500k jabs a day at one point . Spain i think has less than 800k total. And I'd imagine Spanish and German and French etc people are rather ****** off that they're loved ones are behind us - the stupid British who left the EU. Unless there is some very dodgy dealings going on - I'm not sure our government are smart enough to do that, they're devious enough to try - the EU snoozed and lost.

 

Imagine if you will, if this decision was reversed. Do you think the EU would be sending vaccines to us? No, not one. It would be all "you're a third party, you voted to leave, you can't have the benefits". This whole charade is political arse covering. 

 

 

[whiteowl 54]

1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said:

I hate our government. They're incompetent liars in the main but they got in early (to the horror of many scientists  around the world), gambled and won.  To the untrained mind like mine, its a contract row.

 

EU citizens are watching our clown car of a government smash nearly 500k jabs a day at one point . Spain i think has less than 800k total. And I'd imagine Spanish and German and French etc people are rather ****** off that they're loved ones are behind us - the stupid British who left the EU. Unless there is some very dodgy dealings going on - I'm not sure our government are smart enough to do that, they're devious enough to try - the EU snoozed and lost.

 

Imagine if you will, if this decision was reversed. Do you think the EU would be sending vaccines to us? No, not one. It would be all "you're a third party, you voted to leave, you can't have the benefits". This whole charade is political arse covering. 

 

 

Absolutely this.

 

I'm a fairly avid remainer (is that even a word these days?)  but I do think the EU fumbled the ball on this one. 

[KinderKid 0]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

Apparently a delivery note was found by investigators, for a very early shipment of vaccine from AZ's Belgian factory to NI, which (if it happened) puts AZ in breach of its contractual obligations to the EU about the initial 300m doses.

 

That breach would then necessarily be either wilful (on gvt order or out of patriotism or ...) or accidental. The export control is designed to mitigate reoccurrence of that breach irrespectively of whether it is wilful or accidental: customs officer would just seize the shipments in Zeebrugge or wherever else they leave Belgium.

 

But this is all still looking very confused, there is some doubt about whether the Commission actually took a/the decision under Article 16 at all, and it wasn't instead some unauthorised disclosure of preparatory materials (the Commission had been talking about Art.16 for quite a while). 

 

It's a political mess. But at least, it's not an illegal one (if the decision was actually taken), because Art.16 allows unilateral invoking without consultation in an emergency (which this would be, if the underlying facts are averred).

Would be interested to see where you saw this? I don't seem to have come across it

[Westie1889 0]

The press are reporting that the Irish government were not consulted before article 16 was triggered, how on earth does that happen?

On something that’s so sensitive to a member state it’s unbelievable. 

[petemcewan 27]

El Cid,

 

Quote

Indeed, we need to learn. Gibraltar has had 6 deaths after they had the vaccine. 

Did they die as a consequence of being vaccinated ? Or did they get infected and were vaccinated too late?

Edited January 30, 2021 by petemcewan

[Baron99 779]

2 hours ago, petemcewan said:

El Cid,

 

Did they die as a consequence of being vaccinated ? Or did they get infected and were vaccinated to late?

Indeed some people will be vaccinated but unfortunately die as none of the vaccines offer 100% protection.  The jab(s), won't stop you from potentially getting a dose of COVID-19, just reduce its potency.  A jab won't fix people's underlying health problems, which will still put them at risk.  It will be the luck of the draw for a minority of people if they survive a bout of COVID-19 even after vaccination. 

 

It's the same luck that means people in tbeir teens, 20's & 30's have died while a woman of a 113, managed to survive. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sofialottopersio/2020/05/12/spains-oldest-woman-aged-113-has-survived-coronavirus/

 

[enntee 10]

 

11 hours ago, L00b said:

 

Expect a corrective U-turn very soon...

Didn't take long .......

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/eu-controls-on-vaccine-exports-to-northern-ireland-trigger-diplomatic-row

[MuteWitness 10]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

Indeed some people will be vaccinated but unfortunately die as none of the vaccines offer 100% protection.  The jab(s), won't stop you from potentially getting a dose of COVID-19, just reduce its potency.  A jab won't fix people's underlying health problems, which will still put them at risk.  It will be the luck of the draw for a minority of people if they survive a bout of COVID-19 even after vaccination. 

 

It's the same luck that means people in tbeir teens, 20's & 30's have died while a woman of a 113, managed to survive. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sofialottopersio/2020/05/12/spains-oldest-woman-aged-113-has-survived-coronavirus/

 

Will the bbc report deaths within 28 days of the vaccination...just to scare us even more.