Coronavirus - Part Two.

[Westie1889 0]

The Guardian are saying the EU commission is preparing legislation to block vaccine exports - if true it will delay the UK vaccine program by 2 months to September and likely cause many deaths.

They are using the fact that the UK has banned the export of certain medicines to justify this.

A quick search shows half the EU nations did this themselves in the past 12 months, the EU also banned the export of medical equipment and PPE from May which was heavily criticised as it affected poorer countries greatly as Germany is a big producer.

 

I’m usually pretty ambivalent towards the EU, there are things I don’t like about it and there are things I do but this stinks of politicians failing to do their jobs properly then blaming others to save their own skins.

 

If this goes through it will cost British lives and why - because the EU commission failed to sign-up to the Oxford vaccine when they should. Whether that was due to overly- bureaucratic processes in agreeing doses and funding between member states or a political view that they didn’t want a ‘British’ vaccine we will probably never know.

 

I hope they don’t go through with this, my parents have been hiding away for 10 months and have had the first Pfizer jab - will they get the second one now?

Its especially galling as my Dad is not in the best of health and had moved closer to me in the hope we could spend what time he has left together. Covid has meant this has not been possible so far, this issue could further delay that and who knows what might happen in-between?

 

The EU are not covering themselves in glory here, either in terms of their capabilities or morals and if it comes to pass I think there will rightly be outrage and it will damage relations even further.

[Flanker7 20]

13 minutes ago, Westie1889 said:

I’m usually pretty ambivalent towards the EU, there are things I don’t like about it and there are things I do but this stinks of politicians failing to do their jobs properly then blaming others to save their own skins.

The situation spins both ways.

a) The EU -  Hide bound, bureaucratic, slow.

b) UK - Corner cutting, standard slipping, expedient.

 

I tend to believe :-

b) as we know them so well.

a) can be true also

 

But I suspect that there are similar Political clones in every country. Whilst many of us are able to see 'wood for the trees'and hear the dog whistles in the UK our knowelege of EU is less detailed. Heaven help us.

[Westie1889 0]

22 minutes ago, Flanker7 said:

The situation spins both ways.

a) The EU -  Hide bound, bureaucratic, slow.

b) UK - Corner cutting, standard slipping, expedient.

 

I tend to believe :-

b) as we know them so well.

a) can be true also

 

But I suspect that there are similar Political clones in every country. Whilst many of us are able to see 'wood for the trees'and hear the dog whistles in the UK our knowelege of EU is less detailed. Heaven help us.

I agree it’s politicians being politicians, and I’m not saying we are superior to them, just that they are just as bad despite many peoples protestations otherwise.

 

In terms of us corner cutting etc if you are referring to vaccine approval in the UK this myth has been debunked by all the leading scientists and does the people working on this issue a great disservice and also leads ultimately to a lack of take-up on the vaccine.

[hauxwell 243]

We are doing very well in the number of people we are vaccinating in this country and it appears the EU don’t like it.

Good news on another new vaccine which is on the way, Novavax, which is being made in Stockton-on-Tees.  Another vaccine the EU won’t be able to block.

Edited January 29, 2021 by hauxwell

[El Cid 215]

1 hour ago, Westie1889 said:

The Guardian are saying the EU commission is preparing legislation to block vaccine exports - if true it will delay the UK vaccine program by 2 months to September and likely cause many deaths.

They are using the fact that the UK has banned the export of certain medicines to justify this.

That is one reason why we left the EU, so Boris could play the nationalism card, he would do the same. I would be surprised if that happened tho.

[El Cid 215]

44 minutes ago, Westie1889 said:

In terms of us corner cutting etc if you are referring to vaccine approval in the UK this myth has been debunked by all the leading scientists and does the people working on this issue a great disservice and also leads ultimately to a lack of take-up on the vaccine.

Of course corners were cut, u can take that as a positive or negative. It resulted in the UK getting the vaccine first.

I hope their will be no bad outcomes from this corner cutting, except know how effective the vaccines are for older people. But if they have an effect of help antibodies develop in younger people, it will do the same for all age groups.

Medications should be tested more in general, male and female bodies are different, obese/tall people may need a bigger dose.

How can one dose be the same for a small female vs a large male?

[Westie1889 0]

6 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Of course corners were cut, u can take that as a positive or negative. It resulted in the UK getting the vaccine first.

I hope their will be no bad outcomes from this corner cutting, except know how effective the vaccines are for older people. But if they have an effect of help antibodies develop in younger people, it will do the same for all age groups.

Medications should be tested more in general, male and female bodies are different, obese/tall people may need a bigger dose.

How can one dose be the same for a small female vs a large male?

They didn’t cut corners, they stopped all approval work on other vaccines and tripled the manpower on the Oxford approval so it took only one third of the normal time to go through the data.

people need to read what the scientists say, it’s out there.

[Cyclecar 24]

Producing vaccines is not like stamping out washers, I am not a scientist but I gather that the vaccine has to be 'grown' in batches, etc.  So you cannot just crank up the presses.....

 

I do wonder if AZ have over promised,  and gladly accepted orders for many millions of doses which - now we are at the sharp end - they are struggling to deliver. Interesting to learn that the UK site/s are more productive than the German and Belgian ones - who'd have thought it.  And good news that the Novovax product should be in the shops by mid year. 

 

Oh, and the French are 'avin a wobble because their home grown vaccine has failed its trials. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Cyclecar
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[hauxwell 243]

15 hours ago, FIRETHORN1 said:

My mum is 83. She is a double amputee, with both legs amputated above the knee. She is housebound, wheelchair-bound & also suffers from COPD. She has been assessed as being "extremely clinically vulnerable" & has Carers visit 3 times a day to look after her needs. I am very concerned that she has not yet been offered the Covid vaccine. She has not even been contacted. I called her GP surgery (Far Lane, S6), who told me that she would be contacted in "due course" and offered an appointment -  then she would be expected to go to the Sheffield Arena to get her jab!  When I explained that travelling to the Sheffield Arena would be impossible for her, because she's housebound, I was told that I would have to contact the District Nurse service. I contacted the District Nurse service, who told me that they are not doing the jabs ....and that I should call her GP surgery. I called the Far Lane surgery again.....and was told to contact the District Nursing service...again! Basically, we are just being pushed from pillar to post!    

 

In the meantime, a couple of my mum's friends, who live in Mosborough,  are still in their 70's and who are fit and well and have no underlying health issues, were invited to have their jabs at their local GP surgery. They have now already had their first jabs and have got confirmed appointment dates for their 2nd jabs.    

 

Surely this is unfair? I'm glad that my mum's Mosborough mates have had their jabs - good luck to them - but  how come that two perfectly healthy people in their 70's can get their jabs quickly and easily in Mosborough, but an extremely disabled and clinically vulnerable person in her 80's can't even get her first jab in Hillsborough? Is it that there is just a much higher demographic of old and sick people in Hillsborough - or is it just a post-code lottery? 

I would have thought it was the GP surgery’s job to contact the district nurse, not you. I would have one more go at asking them to contact the district nurse on your behalf and explain you are being passed from pillar to post and you have no were else to go.

If you are getting no were with your GP I would do as DameClara says, phone your MP’s office and ask for help.

[petemcewan 27]

What is the last thing people need during a global pandemic ?

 

Answer:  Vaccine wars.

 

Politicians are playing a daft game which ultimately puts me and thee's life at risk.

Thank goodness we have the Novavax waiting for approval.

 

[Thirsty Relic 211]

There are enough variables in vaccination, without adding a new one.

 

The EU threatening to block us getting more Pfizer should act as a warning to us not to use what Pfizer we've got to vaccinate anybody other than those who already have had the first jab.  We don't know if any of the other vaccines can act as the 2nd jab and give the same protection as the 2nd Pfizer jab.  Any scheduled vaccination of other groups can take place with the Oxford vaccine (or other non-Pfizer ones).

As we are producing vaccines (including the new one from Stockton-on-Tees) faster than the EU, put pressure on to stop the EU from ordering any until they stop threatening to stop Pfizer exports.

[L00b 441]

3 hours ago, Flanker7 said:

The situation spins both ways.

a) The EU -  Hide bound, bureaucratic, slow.

b) UK - Corner cutting, standard slipping, expedient.

 

I tend to believe :-

b) as we know them so well.

a) can be true also

 

But I suspect that there are similar Political clones in every country. Whilst many of us are able to see 'wood for the trees'and hear the dog whistles in the UK our knowelege of EU is less detailed. Heaven help us.

Recalling that healthcare generally, and pandemic management in particular, had never been competencies of the EU until last year, helps to appreciate the situation in its proper context, which is that EU member states eventually agreed to coordinate and handle procurement issues collectively through the EU institutions, which by definition takes much more organising and a longer time, whereas the UK went it alone, with the additional good fortune  of having Astra Zeneca at home with its own production facility.

 

So of course the UK was always going to be more adaptive and nimble, especially after Sunak equipped it with a newfound jungle of money trees. The NHS has made the rest of the difference -and still does-  but that has certainly not been through Johnson and Hancock's leadership and managerial skills.

 

Brexit supporters are currently making hay of that situation, in their desperate search for positives to make Brexit look worthwhile, even though any EU member state could have gone it alone and started vaccinations earlier. But in 6 months' time, once the most at-risk populations have been vaccinated and virus mortality declines dramatically (...in first world countries), no-one will remember who vaccinated most or quicker: what people will still remember then, are the number of deaths in their country and how the pandemic was handled by their government.

 

EDIT: this EU blocking is not needed, either. There are compulsory licensing provisions in the patent legislation of every developed and semi-developed country in the world, under which a government, faced with a healthcare emergency, can force Astra Zeneca, Pfizer, etc. to grant a time-limited license (not free) to one or more national producers under the national patent for the vaccine, for boosting domestic production. Why more noise isn't made about this option, I don't know. But it's hardly secret. It's just never been used anywhere before (AFAIK). Now would very much be the time.

Edited January 29, 2021 by L00b