Coronavirus - Part Two.

[Mister M 1,609]

46 minutes ago, nightrider said:

I went out for the first time in rush hour today after being at home for 10 months and in broom hill there were the usual queues of cars all the way down from crookes and in from Fullwood/ranmoor. Not much evidence of a lockdown. 

It just doesn't make sense does it? Lockdown measures were stricter and more adhered to last Spring / Summer, yet we are told that the new variant is much more transmissible.

Whether this is a failure of Government communication, a knowledge that a vaccine is on the way, or a lack of understanding / unwillingness to comply; or a mixture of all of the above which is probable.

 

Amongst the lessons that Government needs to learn, I think individuals need to learn - not everyone, because as we know, many have really gotten on board with the hows and whys of lockdown, but some haven't. I'm afraid for those unwilling, the carrot isn't enough of an inducement, so perhaps the stick is necessary.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Mister M

[Anna B 1,401]

3 hours ago, Mister M said:

It just doesn't make sense does it? Lockdown measures were stricter and more adhered to last Spring / Summer, yet we are told that the new variant is much more transmissible.

Whether this is a failure of Government communication, a knowledge that a vaccine is on the way, or a lack of understanding / unwillingness to comply; or a mixture of all of the above which is probable.

 

Amongst the lessons that Government needs to learn, I think individuals need to learn - not everyone, because as we know, many have really gotten on board with the hows and whys of lockdown, but some haven't. I'm afraid for those unwilling, the carrot isn't enough of an inducement, so perhaps the stick is necessary.

We were also told last Spring that wearing masks was not necessary, if not positively dangerous, and discouraged. 

Now they are essential and you won't be allowed in shops without them.

Is it any wonder some people don't take the governments diktats seriously? 

 

I incidently do wear a mask when necessary, but question some of the rules which clearly don't make any logical sense.

[Mister M 1,609]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

We were also told last Spring that wearing masks was not necessary, if not positively dangerous, and discouraged. 

Now they are essential and you won't be allowed in shops without them.

Is it any wonder some people don't take the governments diktats seriously? 

 

I incidently do wear a mask when necessary, but question some of the rules which clearly don't make any logical sense.

No I get that communications from officials hasn't been great. With regards to masks, I do remember initial debate was about their efficacy, and then the need to dispose of them carefully once used. In this regard we did lose vital months. However, given the newness of the situation some confusion is understandable.

I have less cynicism about Government than I do about those individuals who have throughout this pandemic and deliberately sought to deny the existence of COVID or spread conspiracy theories. I have absolutely no idea what these people get from doing this. Battling Coronavirus is hard enough, why on earth people would want to inflame the situation is beyond me.

Questioning rules is fine, often doing so elicits a clearer explanation of the whys

Edited January 14, 2021 by Mister M

[Mister M 1,609]

I would also add that it's a shame a large national employer sought to use its position to spread misinformation about COVID

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/covid-wetherspoon-pub-lockdown-poster-b1785537.html

[Anna B 1,401]

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

I would also add that it's a shame a large national employer sought to use its position to spread misinformation about COVID

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/covid-wetherspoon-pub-lockdown-poster-b1785537.html

I would argue with the word 'misinformation.'

 

Looking at something from a different point of view is not misinformation. (Glass half full -true, Glass half empty - lie?)

Even scientists don't agree on everything. Boris added to the problem by trying to cover up mistakes with lies to cover his own back, so people didn't trust the information he was giving out. 

 

Different countries went about things in different ways with different, often better results. They did however agree on one thing which Boris ignored. The most important thing in the beginning they said was 'testing, testing, testing,' followed by track and trace. We had neither, and insisted on reinventing the wheel with our own 'world beating' solutions which didn't work rather than using methods which had already proven successful in other countries.   

 

Remember we are not yet seeing the other side of covid. We have paid the price in lives lost, but the aftermath will be equally as damaging albeit in different ways.

[Becky B 31]

18 hours ago, Anna B said:

Careworkers could be recruited and trained more quickly and easily so they wouldn't need seconded nurses from NHS hospitals. The Nightingale hospitals were intended as intensive care beds for patients but can't be used for lack of doctors and nurses, so they are standing empty. So why not use them for patients who are not 'ill' and just need convalescent care, tended for by careworkers, and free up hospital beds for those that need them. 

 

 

Care homes are already staffed.  If they have beds, why go through the process of recruiting and training more people?

I don't work in HR, but given the processes you have to go through to get a job, isn't that adding an unnecessary layer of complications (and delays)?

[redruby 279]

8 hours ago, Mister M said:

It just doesn't make sense does it? Lockdown measures were stricter and more adhered to last Spring / Summer, yet we are told that the new variant is much more transmissible.

Whether this is a failure of Government communication, a knowledge that a vaccine is on the way, or a lack of understanding / unwillingness to comply; or a mixture of all of the above which is probable.

 

Amongst the lessons that Government needs to learn, I think individuals need to learn - not everyone, because as we know, many have really gotten on board with the hows and whys of lockdown, but some haven't. I'm afraid for those unwilling, the carrot isn't enough of an inducement, so perhaps the stick is necessary.

The rules are less strict than the first lockdown but apparently the majority of people are sticking to the rules.  Apart from the most important one by a country mile - self isolation with symptoms.  Many people just cannot afford to do this and so continue to go to work.  This is big big problem but the government focuses on queues for takeaway coffee instead. 

Edited January 14, 2021 by redruby

[Mister M 1,609]

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

I would argue with the word 'misinformation.'

 

Looking at something from a different point of view is not misinformation. (Glass half full -true, Glass half empty - lie?)

Even scientists don't agree on everything. Boris added to the problem by trying to cover up mistakes with lies to cover his own back, so people didn't trust the information he was giving out. 

 

Different countries went about things in different ways with different, often better results. They did however agree on one thing which Boris ignored. The most important thing in the beginning they said was 'testing, testing, testing,' followed by track and trace. We had neither, and insisted on reinventing the wheel with our own 'world beating' solutions which didn't work rather than using methods which had already proven successful in other countries.   

 

Remember we are not yet seeing the other side of covid. We have paid the price in lives lost, but the aftermath will be equally as damaging albeit in different ways.

The misinformation that Weatherspoons are complaining about:

 

"One of the flyers was pictured still visible in some pub windows this month. It reproduces a news story from 20 November last year, which cast doubt on the dire warnings of government scientists about the threat posed by the second Covid-19 wave."

That's wasn't misinformation, the second wave has been caused by the new variant and its increased transmissibility. 

 

No some people don't trust the scientists or Government Ministers, but I get the impression that many simply use that as an excuse to do what they want to do, and stuff the consequences. Now that's fine, if those were the only individuals who suffered the consequences. But we know that they're not.

Yes Track and Trace was and is a farce. Earlier on in this thread I referenced one local area, in this country, who had developed their own and was far more successful than the national Serco one.

 

No scientists don't agree on everything, but Government has to make up its mind based on the information given. I do know that some scientists say we should've 'gone for herd immunity'. Though I've never understood that because herd immunity is an aim that we all want, and the means to get there is through vaccination. I acknowledge that many have died as a consequence of not getting operations, because many hospitals diverted resources to tackling Covid. I can't remember, but early in the pandemic, I'm sure that Government ministers said that research was done into the human costs of letting the virus rip versus the strategy of lockdown.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Mister M

[Mister M 1,609]

2 hours ago, redruby said:

The rules are less strict than the first lockdown but apparently the majority of people are sticking to the rules.  Apart from the most important one by a country mile - self isolation with symptoms.  Many people just cannot afford to do this and so continue to go to work.  This is big big problem but the government focuses on queues for takeaway coffee instead. 

No I agree that many low paid workers can't afford to self isolate, and I know that New York is often quoted where those self isolating are given every support. The compliance rate as a result is something like 90% IIRC

[apelike 10]

3 hours ago, Mister M said:

The misinformation that Weatherspoons are complaining about:

 

"One of the flyers was pictured still visible in some pub windows this month. It reproduces a news story from 20 November last year, which cast doubt on the dire warnings of government scientists about the threat posed by the second Covid-19 wave."

That's wasn't misinformation, the second wave has been caused by the new variant and its increased transmissibility. 

Me bold.. No that in bold is misinformation as there is no data to back that up as what we know at the moment is just a guestimate and an assumption only that it may be one of the causes. The biggest rise has been seen in London and the South and yet the pictures of packed carriages over the past several weeks on London Transport now somehow get conveniently ignored. Even some of the leading virologists now think the new variant may not be as bad as it was initially made out to be. 

 

This is worth a watch and a listen to and although it is 2 hours + long it includes timestamps for the important bits. 

 

https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-697/

[redruby 279]

4 hours ago, apelike said:

Me bold.. No that in bold is misinformation as there is no data to back that up as what we know at the moment is just a guestimate and an assumption only that it may be one of the causes. The biggest rise has been seen in London and the South and yet the pictures of packed carriages over the past several weeks on London Transport now somehow get conveniently ignored. Even some of the leading virologists now think the new variant may not be as bad as it was initially made out to be. 

 

This is worth a watch and a listen to and although it is 2 hours + long it includes timestamps for the important bits. 

 

https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-697/

The new variant is more transmissable but I agree that there are other factors also driving this wave which are being conveniently overlooked.

Edited January 15, 2021 by redruby

[Thirsty Relic 209]

Why are we giving the vaccine to people who do not need it?  The vaccine is not as effective as natural antibodies produced when people have had the virus and recovered from it.  If we were tested for antibodies before vaccination, that would save the vaccine for those who need it, and not introduce unneeded medicines into our bodies.

"the government has faced mounting calls to increase antibody testing after data released yesterday showed natural immunity to Covid may prove better protection than the Astrazeneca vaccine." 

https://www.cityam.com/exclusive-government-scraps-antibody-tests-at-nhs-sites/

Given that estimates of around 1 in 3 or 1 in 5 of the UK population has already had Covid are seen in  the press, that means a lot of people are being given it when their bodies already have immunity.