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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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5 hours ago, redruby said:

There is growing concern that vaccination programmes will be disrupted by health workers off sick with covid or having to isolate.

The availability of vaccines is key in this pandemic but it still feels like some people are in la la land when it comes recognising the challenges ahead.  This lockdown is more relaxed than the March one and yet despite the vaccines starting to roll out we are in more critical situation than we were then.  I have seen big, not very well socially distanced, queues waiting for takeaways in my local area for example.  The amount of traffic yesterday was less than usual for a Saturday but not massively less and still quite busy.  I don’t think those were all essential journeys on a Saturday afternoon. The definition of critical worker has widened and as a result a more children can attend school and more people are travelling to work.  It will most likely draw the lockdown out longer and sadly more people will become victims of covid. 




 

Listening to a medical programme about this earlier, one of the experts said if anything, this lockdown should be stricter than the first because the new variant is 50% more transmissible.

The first lockdown worked to bring the R number down, but this time it's harder to achieve because of the increased transmissibility.

 

People have become complacent (even if they were bothering with social distancing in the first place).

 

It feels like it's never going to end 😞

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29 minutes ago, Becky B said:

Listening to a medical programme about this earlier, one of the experts said if anything, this lockdown should be stricter than the first because the new variant is 50% more transmissible. 

I have heard quite a few scientists and experts in the papers demanding the lockdown should be much stricter. I would like to hear how exactly these experts realistically think that can happen.

 

The country is already into tier five.  A blanket national lockdown for several weeks. All non-essential retailers, eat in hospitality, hotels, schools, offices.... are all closed with remote working arrangements or no business at all.

There are entire Industries teetering on the brink of collapse with the government desperately trying to the balance enough of our finite taxpayer money for either furlough wage to the staff temporarily or makeup a business loss in other ways through grants or other support schemes.

 

Police are now freely able to stop, question and and punish those who are undertaking unnecessary travel or mixing against the rules.

 

However, it is obvious that some people have to go outside to work to keep things moving and such work cannot be done sat in their pants in their living room.  We still need great numbers of people out there doing those essential things like keeping the lights switched on, telecommunications running, the Health Service operating, broadcast services on the air, policing and emergency response available, public transport operating.... 

 

Then of course there's those Great British Public at home.  They still need supplies and to eat, so at the very very least major supermarkets have to be open (yes whilst places like Poundland, Wilko or take away fast-food etc may be a bit debatable - if they still feed and water people they are generally going to fall within the rules). So. That means all these retail staff have to go out to work..... Those stores don't magically stock themselves and need suppliers and deliveries and warehousing. That means that there are 1000s more people going to work in haulage.....Those hauliers on the road need to eat and sleep and therefore service stations and canteens have to be open and operating.... Hauliers need suppliers and manufacturs so every factory and distributor and producer also has to remain open with staff flowing in and out...

 

Its an endless cycle and these experts and statisticians need to get a grip and realise that humans cannot simply press pause and go into hibernation for 6-months.

 

It's all so easy to go on television or make statements in newspapers about how everything needs to be quicker, faster, stricter,harder. It's all so easy to start finger pointing about behaviour of the general public and failures of the government when they are not the ones who actually have to balance practical reality with idealistic proposals.

 

The world doesn't stop turning.  

Edited by ECCOnoob

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9 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

I have heard quite a few scientists and experts in the papers demanding the lockdown should be much stricter. I would like to hear how exactly these experts realistically think that can happen.

 

The country is already into tier five.  A blanket national lockdown for several weeks. All non-essential retailers, eat in hospitality, hotels, schools, offices.... are all closed with remote working arrangements or no business at all.

There are entire Industries teetering on the brink of collapse with the government desperately trying to the balance enough of our finite taxpayer money for either furlough wage to the staff temporarily or makeup a business loss in other ways through grants or other support schemes.

 

Police are now freely able to stop, question and and punish those who are undertaking unnecessary travel or mixing against the rules.

 

However, it is obvious that some people have to go outside to work to keep things moving and such work cannot be done sat in their pants in their living room.  We still need great numbers of people out there doing those essential things like keeping the lights switched on, telecommunications running, the Health Service operating, broadcast services on the air, policing and emergency response available, public transport operating.... 

 

Then of course there's those Great British Public at home.  They still need supplies and to eat, so at the very very least major supermarkets have to be open (yes whilst places like Poundland, Wilko or take away fast-food etc may be a bit debatable - if they still feed and water people they are generally going to fall within the rules). So. That means all these retail staff have to go out to work..... Those stores don't magically stock themselves and need suppliers and deliveries and warehousing. That means that there are 1000s more people going to work in haulage.....Those hauliers on the road need to eat and sleep and therefore service stations and canteens have to be open and operating.... Hauliers need suppliers and manufacturs so every factory and distributor and producer also has to remain open with staff flowing in and out...

 

Its an endless cycle and these experts and statisticians need to get a grip and realise that humans cannot simply press pause and go into hibernation for 6-months.

 

It's all so easy to go on television or make statements in newspapers about how everything needs to be quicker, faster, stricter,harder. It's all so easy to start finger pointing about behaviour of the general public and failures of the government when they are not the ones who actually have to balance practical reality with idealistic proposals.

 

The world doesn't stop turning.  

But it's much less strict than march/April - you only need to look at the end of your road. "Essential" has a much wider remit this time round. If in doubt, probably visit a school. Also much busier than march/April.

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50 minutes ago, Becky B said:

Listening to a medical programme about this earlier, one of the experts said if anything, this lockdown should be stricter than the first because the new variant is 50% more transmissible.

The first lockdown worked to bring the R number down, but this time it's harder to achieve because of the increased transmissibility.

 

People have become complacent (even if they were bothering with social distancing in the first place).

 

It feels like it's never going to end 😞

Its also not as strict as the first lockdown, people are still allowed to work, nurseries still open etc

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@ECCOnoob Thank you for your post (#3653). Sadly, there are those - like the 'experts' mentioned, that appear to exist in their own bubble,  to use one of the current 'in' words - who pontificate without reference to the real world.

Edited by RollingJ

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6 minutes ago, melthebell said:

Its also not as strict as the first lockdown, people are still allowed to work, nurseries still open etc

Good. People going to work equals money. Not everyone has a luxury of a big family available for childcare at the snap of fingers. Children going to nursery or into school means parents can go to work.

 

Just like I said, it's practical realities vs idealistic opinion.

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40 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

But it's much less strict than march/April - you only need to look at the end of your road. "Essential" has a much wider remit this time round. If in doubt, probably visit a school. Also much busier than march/April.

 

30 minutes ago, melthebell said:

Its also not as strict as the first lockdown, people are still allowed to work, nurseries still open etc

.....Yet.

 

This is the very start of the lockdown- I predict that it will get much stricter. Just from looking at the front pages of the papers today, I see the typical govt rumblings about the public not complying and therefore 'killing people', that always precede tougher measures. 

 

Also, according to the media, British police have been told to issue £200 fines to anyone who doesn't immediately go home when instructed to.

 

2 hours ago, petemcewan said:

For those of you who are interested in this debate. My own personal opinion of this brand of ethics, is that it's a prime example of repugnant  authoritarian Utilitarianism. An example of how to tailor a proposition to the outcome that is desired.

I sincerely hope the UK does not  adopted the strategy outlined 

 

https://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/09/medethics-2020-106821

There will be much more of these- IMO mandetory covid vaccination, or, coercive i.e those not accepting vaccination will be limited in terms of travel, employment etc, is almost guaranteed. And that will likely not be a one off, but at least an annual complulsory/coerced vaccination justifed due to new strains/mutations.

 

Anyone who really finds complulsory/coerced vaccination to be repugnant/authoritarian and a very serious civil liberty issue, needs to realise it is very likely coming and start opposing it [IMO]

 

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6 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

 

.

 

Also, according to the media, British police have been told to issue £200 fines to anyone who doesn't immediately go home when instructed to.

So, there's going to be a copper on every street corner? Otherwise, how is that going to work - seriously ? Media hype, again.

Edited by RollingJ

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1 minute ago, onewheeldave said:

 

.....Yet.

 

This is the very start of the lockdown- I predict that it will get much stricter. Just from looking at the front pages of the papers today, I see the typical govt rumblings about the public not complying and therefore 'killing people', that always precede tougher measures. 

 

Also, according to the media, British police have been told to issue £200 fines to anyone who doesn't immediately go home when instructed to.

I'm not sure that the Government have been particularly vocal about people not complying with lockdown restrictions, especially given the steep rise in cases & deaths in the last month or so.

I just wish the Government were clearer and more consistent in their messaging.

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2 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

So, there's going to be a copper on every street corner? Otherwise, how is that going to work - seriously ? Media hype, again.

How it is likely going to work is- 

 

remember the first lockdown where some police forces went well over the top and, for example, harrassed people simply going for a walk in the country, alone? [plus posting drone videos on the forces twitter account]. And how said forces were instructed by rational superiors to cease such actions?

 

It looks like they are now being given carte blanche to restart that kind of behaviour, and, get away with it.

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Sounds like the lawyers are going to have a field day.    Maybe it's all intentional to get at least one industry booming again.

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1 minute ago, onewheeldave said:

How it is likely going to work is- 

 

remember the first lockdown where some police forces went well over the top and, for example, harrassed people simply going for a walk in the country, alone? [plus posting drone videos on the forces twitter account]. And how said forces were instructed by rational superiors to cease such actions?

 

It looks like they are now being given carte blanche to restart that kind of behaviour, and, get away with it.

Well, I remember walking to Archer Road from home around the start of that time, and the only police I saw were a group of 8 of them - not practising any social distancing at all - who I walked past, said 'Hello, having a nice rest?' and just got a few laughs, no question of where I was from/going to or anything. They were all on 'trials' type motorbikes too.

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