Coronavirus - Part Two.

[Pettytom 1]

5 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

 

So, can you accept it is possible that 10% of people wearing masks don't actually want to wear them?

I’m willing to accept that 100% of people don’t want to wear them.

 

It’s just that 90% of the population recognise the need to wear one and do so willingly for the good of others.

[redruby 279]

Well clearly the situation in France is not good....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54535358

[Pettytom 1]

It’s not good in a lot of places, unfortunately.

[Litotes 63]

I don't want to pay tax, but I do for the greater good.

I don't want to go to work, but I do for my family's good.

I wear a mask, not only for my good, but for everyone's good.

 

You don't want to wear a mask - well don't be so selfish and think of those people who get troubled by people not wearing one.

If everyone wore one, then there wouldn't be the fear about going out.

I think that the suicide rate would be less if everyone wore a mask - why? because the fear factor would be lower.

 

But, don't worry those that don't wear a mask;

• Don't worry about those people that you are imprisoning;
• Don't worry about those people whose mental health you are ruining.

 

That's ok, because you are slightly imposed upon, I am sure they understand your selfishness.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Litotes

[Longcol 600]

20 minutes ago, redruby said:

Well clearly the situation in France is not good....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54535358

Depends where you live - you can't consider France as a whole no more than you can the UK.

 

Main cities are far more affected than rural areas - like the UK - Paris is the biggest conurabation in Europe - but we've also much more space. Were're a good 4 hours away from Paris (at least) by road and rail. 2 hours plus to the nearest city. Nearest town of 50k plus population an hour and a half away. The new measures affect just over 20m people out of 60m plus.

 

At least we've a president who owns mistakes - is willing to be grilled on live TV tonight by heavyweight pundits without having to defer to experts or have papers to drop on the floor - and doesn't come across like a two bob Churchill (or De Gaulle impersonator).  Test and trace functions pretty well in clamping down on local outbreaks.

 

We also have functioning regional and local democracy.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Longcol

[redruby 279]

4 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Depends where you live - you can't consider France as a whole no more than any can the UK.

 

Main cities are far more affected than rural areas - like the UK - Paris is the biggest conurabation in Europe - but we've also much more space.

 

At least we've a president who owns mistakes - is willing to be grilled on live TV tonight by heavyweight pundits without having to defer to experts or have papers to drop on the floor - and doesn't come across like a two bob Churchill (or De Gaulle impersonator).  Test and trace functions pretty well in clamping down on local outbreaks.

 

We also have functioning regional and local democracy.

It is no surprise cities are more badly affected in France as in other countries for obvious reasons. 
I posted the link as France seemed to be being hailed as a paragon of virtue with regards to mask wearing on here, and yet France as with the UK is still seeing infections increase exponentially. So I will make the point again either the mask wearing makes only a modest difference at best or perhaps things would be far worse without them 🤔 Whichever way they are clearly not the safety blanket many would have us believe.

[Pettytom 1]

2 minutes ago, redruby said:

It is no surprise cities are more badly affected in France as in other countries for obvious reasons. 
I posted the link as France seemed to be being hailed as a paragon of virtue with regards to mask wearing on here, and yet France as with the UK is still seeing infections increase exponentially. So I will make the point again either the mask wearing makes only a modest difference at best or perhaps things would be far worse without them 🤔 Whichever way they are clearly not the safety blanket many would have us believe.

Who has hailed France as a paragon of virtue?

 

 

[Anna B 1,410]

2 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

I'm autistic, many things in society harm us- we have a suicide rate 9x higher than the national average. I go out and I deal with things. For me, at the moment, the mask situation is far from the main harm I'm having to deal with. I'm in a better position than many other autistic people, and many other vulnerable people- I know of several clients who basically aren't going out, due to masking.

Well I've explained at length as to hw they can, and are, harming. You choose to disbelieve/disregard what I say- your choice. Nevertheless, repeatedly posting that they can't harm, is not going to stop me knowing they can, and do; or, communicating that to interested others.

So, can you accept it is possible that 10% of people wearing masks don't actually want to wear them?

I tend to agree.

There is autism in my family,  so yes, I do know this whole covid debacle has caused them no end of problems, which outsiders would probably find hard to fathom, but they are nonetheless very real problems for them. Mask wearing, (or not) is indeed just one more problem  that they find hard to deal with.

 

Humans are programmed to read faces, it's part of our innate survival instinct. At the most basic level it allows us to detect whether a person is friend or foe; whether a person intends you harm or not etc. so it is important. Most people can suppress this instinct in the right circumstances, but not everybody can, so it can trigger deep seated anxieties. 

 

Politically it is also seen as a mark of suppression. Peter Hitchens (who I often profoundly disagree with) refers to them as 'muzzles' and he has a point. There has been a great deal that is wrong with the way that this epidemic has been handled but people it seems are not allowed to have their say. We are only hearing one side of the argument. Our freedoms and liberties have been severely limited on the back of it, (which it could be argued is fair enough in a national emergency if that's what this is) but many of them have been passed into law without so much as a proper discussion in parliament, and once on the statute books can be wheeled out and used at will in the future.

 

My philosophy is that wearing a mask might help, and therefore I'm prepared to wear one, but remember, we were being told at the height of the first pandemic that they were no use, weren't necessary, made things worse etc etc. so I don't blame people for being wary and feeling they can't trust the government to do what's right. The government have been caught out in so many lies, they have brought it upon themselves. People need to bear that in mind.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Anna B

[Longcol 600]

10 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Politically it is also seen as a mark of suppression. Peter Hitchens (who I often profoundly disagree with) refers to them as 'muzzles' and he has a point. 

When you've got someone as rabid as Hitchens then perhaps muzzles are a good idea.

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

I'm autistic, many things in society harm us- we have a suicide rate 9x higher than the national average. I go out and I deal with things. For me, at the moment, the mask situation is far from the main harm I'm having to deal with. I'm in a better position than many other autistic people, and many other vulnerable people- I know of several clients who basically aren't going out, due to masking.

 

And I know people who aren't going out - or not to certain shops - because people aren't masking. 

19 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I tend to agree.

There is autism in my family,  so yes, I do know this whole covid debacle has caused them no end of problems, which outsiders would probably find hard to fathom, but they are nonetheless very real problems for them. Mask wearing, (or not) is indeed just one more problem  that they find hard to deal with.

 

Humans are programmed to read faces, it's part of our innate survival instinct. At the most basic level it allows us to detect whether a person is friend or foe; whether a person intends you harm or not etc. so it is important. Most people can suppress this instinct in the right circumstances, but not everybody can, so it can trigger deep seated anxieties. 

 

Politically it is also seen as a mark of suppression. Peter Hitchens (who I often profoundly disagree with) refers to them as 'muzzles' and he has a point. There has been a great deal that is wrong with the way that this epidemic has been handled but people it seems are not allowed to have their say. We are only hearing one side of the argument. Our freedoms and liberties have been severely limited on the back of it, (which it could be argued is fair enough in a national emergency if that's what this is) but many of them have been passed into law without so much as a proper discussion in parliament, and once on the statute books can be wheeled out and used at will in the future.

 

My philosophy is that wearing a mask might help, and therefore I'm prepared to wear one, but remember, we were being told at the height of the first pandemic that they were no use, weren't necessary, made things worse etc etc. so I don't blame people for being wary and feeling they can't trust the government to do what's right. The government have been caught out in so many lies, they have brought it upon themselves. People need to bear that in mind.

What, nearly every government, globally - is in on the whole mask wearing conspiracy?  That's bonkers even for you ;););)

 

I take your point on how our government bypasses truth, scrutiny etc etc - but pick another one and listen to them! Merkel, the lovely Jacinda - trump if you want to go the other way. All wearing masks to greater or lesser extent.

 

One thing though, never, ever listen to Hitchens - he's never the smartest in the room even when he's the only one it.

[Pettytom 1]

3 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

And I know people who aren't going out - or not to certain shops - because people aren't masking. 

And, if masking and distancing become no longer mandatory, there will be millions who cannot go out, for any reason.

[redruby 279]

I will wear a mask on the basis that it may possibly be a small benefit in certain indoor environments and provide reassurance for some. From a selfish point of view though, I do like the fact that masks have stopped some people skipping out of my way like frightened rabbits in shops. That isn’t because I haven’t socially distanced properly it is just because some people are in a state of high anxiety. The same happens sometimes passing people (most often elderly people) on footpaths who expect me to risk getting run over darting into a busy  road or to throw myself into a hedge when I’m still 200 yards away. I absolutely support social distancing but I do think more information needs to be communicated about it. I have heard many scientists say any possible risk of catching covid passing someone on the street for a couple of seconds is not really possible unless you were to cough or sneeze right in their face.  Which I believe to be true as if covid was infectious enough to spread passing someone for a few seconds outdoors surely it would have spread much, much more quickly.