apelike   10 #1021 Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, petemcewan said:  Apelike Who is the "we" in the last line of your paragraph ? I thought that to be pretty obvious but that includes the government but mainly the majority of the population at large, you know the masses that have to endure this. Unless of course you prefer lockdowns to continue indefinitely, which is fine by me as I've been in that state for years, but this is not about me as I'm old. Edited September 19, 2020 by apelike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
petemcewan   27 #1022 Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) Apelike, With respect. I don't think the likes of me and thee have any influence over the measures put in place by government. The following linked article is a bit long but makes the point, that there might be a nationwide lock down beginning Oct 2020 .  https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-uk-government-wont-rule-out-second-national-lockdown/  Stay well. Edited September 19, 2020 by petemcewan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Litotes   63 #1023 Posted September 19, 2020 13 hours ago, apelike said: Yes a fallacy, as no one has yet proven that face coverings have any positive affect in helping control the virus and even the Who state that medical grade masks are the ones that work not any old face covering. A fallacy is the use of invalid or otherwise faulty reasoning, or "wrong moves" in the construction of an argument. A fallacious argument may be deceptive by appearing to be better than it really is.  Just because something has not been proven does not make it a fallacy. You need to disprove it for it to be a fallacy...  Waiting... Waiting... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
onewheeldave   22 #1024 Posted September 19, 2020 13 hours ago, Pettytom said: A second lockdown is looking inevitable now. Cases rising rapidly and behaviour not really adjusting to take account of the infection rates.  It’s a shame really that the actions of careless folk affect the liberty of the rest of us Yet deaths from coronavirus are currently less than 28/day in the whole of the UK. Deaths from cancer are usually 450/day in the UK [though may be higher currently due to the increase caused by lack of availabiltiy to treatment as a direct result of the lockdown and coronavirus 'measures'].  It's a grave mistake that the authorities and media are continuing to whip up and maintain fear amongst the gullible element of the public, by focusing on infection rates rather than the very low number of actual deaths caused by the virus.  Tragic that the decimation of the economy and destruction of tens of thousands of small businesses, with countless deaths from untreated treatable conditions, and, the upcoming effects of unemployment and mental illness, continues, to tackle a 'pandemic' that is killing less than 28 people a day in a country of 67,886,011 people!   Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Pettytom   1 #1025 Posted September 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: Yet deaths from coronavirus are currently less than 28/day in the whole of the UK. Deaths from cancer are usually 450/day in the UK [though may be higher currently due to the increase caused by lack of availabiltiy to treatment as a direct result of the lockdown and coronavirus 'measures'].  It's a grave mistake that the authorities and media are continuing to whip up and maintain fear amongst the gullible element of the public, by focusing on infection rates rather than the very low number of actual deaths caused by the virus.  Tragic that the decimation of the economy and destruction of tens of thousands of small businesses, with countless deaths from untreated treatable conditions, and, the upcoming effects of unemployment and mental illness, continues, to tackle a 'pandemic' that is killing less than 28 people a day in a country of 67,886,011 people!   Trouble is, our deaths lag infection rates by about 6-8 weeks. So go and take another look at the infection graph from that perspective.  Add in the long term damage that Covid can cause to even healthy people and you should be able to see the imperative for action.  Most governments in the world are taking action against Covid. I guess you could be right and they might all be wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #1026 Posted September 19, 2020 30 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: Yet deaths from coronavirus are currently less than 28/day in the whole of the UK. Deaths from cancer are usually 450/day in the UK [though may be higher currently due to the increase caused by lack of availabiltiy to treatment as a direct result of the lockdown and coronavirus 'measures'].  It's a grave mistake that the authorities and media are continuing to whip up and maintain fear amongst the gullible element of the public, by focusing on infection rates rather than the very low number of actual deaths caused by the virus.  Tragic that the decimation of the economy and destruction of tens of thousands of small businesses, with countless deaths from untreated treatable conditions, and, the upcoming effects of unemployment and mental illness, continues, to tackle a 'pandemic' that is killing less than 28 people a day in a country of 67,886,011 people!   There's always going to be a gap between the numbers going up (exponentially is the word SAGE are using I believe) and deaths. They'll come a little later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Guest   #1027 Posted September 19, 2020 Is there an actual genuine app that works for this yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
onewheeldave   22 #1028 Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Pettytom said: Trouble is, our deaths lag infection rates by about 6-8 weeks. So go and take another look at the infection graph from that perspective.  Add in the long term damage that Covid can cause to even healthy people and you should be able to see the imperative for action.  Most governments in the world are taking action against Covid. I guess you could be right and they might all be wrong. As usual, the long term damage from lack of cancer treatment, rising mental illness, rising long term unemployment etc, etc, etc don't get a mention. Figure those in please.   28 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said: There's always going to be a gap between the numbers going up (exponentially is the word SAGE are using I believe) and deaths. They'll come a little later. We'll see won't we. My prediction is that however much infections rise, deaths from covid will stay low. In contrast to deaths from lack of cancer treatment, long term unemployment, mental illness etc, etc; the numbers for which will be horrific. Edited September 19, 2020 by onewheeldave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #1029 Posted September 19, 2020 32 minutes ago, onewheeldave said: As usual, the long term damage from lack of cancer treatment, rising mental illness, rising long term unemployment etc, etc, etc don't get a mention. Figure those in please.   We'll see won't we. My prediction is that however much infections rise, deaths from covid will stay low. In contrast to deaths from lack of cancer treatment, long term unemployment, mental illness etc, etc; the numbers for which will be horrific. Hope youre not trying to scare people just like the media you accuse of doing the same? OO 16 hours ago, apelike said: Yes a fallacy, as no one has yet proven that face coverings have any positive affect in helping control the virus and even the Who state that medical grade masks are the ones that work not any old face covering. Feel free to prove that wearing nothing at all over your face is safer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike   10 #1030 Posted September 19, 2020 4 hours ago, Litotes said: A fallacy is the use of invalid or otherwise faulty reasoning, or "wrong moves" in the construction of an argument. A fallacious argument may be deceptive by appearing to be better than it really is. That is just one interpretation of many and chosen because it fits your idea and was probably the first hit on the Google list.  Its can also mean:  A deceptive, misleading, false notion or belief.  A misleading or unsound argument.  Deceptive, misleading or false nature. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
onewheeldave   22 #1031 Posted September 19, 2020 To anyone who is aware of the coming deaths from mental illness, economic devastation, lack of access to GP's, cancer treatment, the impossible backlog of cases for the NHS, who have seen the small businesses of friends and relatives destroyed by the covid measures; and realise that said measures/lockdowns will cause far more misery and mortality than any lives saved from the virus.  This state of affairs can only continue as long as the majority of the public are kept in a constant state of irrational fear- and due to the constant whipping up of said fear by the authorities and media, that is likely to continue.  My advice would be to focus on spreading awareness of the actual death statisitics, currently 28/day in the UK- we are not seeing this very important statistic on the front pages of the newspapers which are focusing only on further fear mongering.  In my opinion, if every member of the public knew that this virus is killing 28 people a day, they would be considerably less tolerant of lockdown measures which will lead to many thousands of deaths from economic damage, mental illness, mass unemployment, lack of access to healthcare etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike   10 #1032 Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pettytom said: Trouble is, our deaths lag infection rates by about 6-8 weeks. So go and take another look at the infection graph from that perspective. I have just been reading this letter of reply in the Guardian so you should like it....  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/18/is-covid-end-closer-than-we-think  Seems like there is more to this than meets the eye.  Quote Add in the long term damage that Covid can cause to even healthy people and you should be able to see the imperative for action. An just how many healthy people have been damaged by this so far?  Quote Most governments in the world are taking action against Covid. I guess you could be right and they might all be wrong. Most government have just panicked into action, that's all.  1 hour ago, melthebell said: Feel free to prove that wearing nothing at all over your face is safer If you can provide the data that shows and proves that wearing a covering works then I can compare it. Edited September 19, 2020 by apelike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...