Ghozer 112 #241 Posted August 11, 2022 46 minutes ago, AndrewC said: (First thing I should say - I'm not a professional planner so I await Planner1 coming along to contradict my every word shortly 😁) If you mean, do the council have to give final approval to the listing, then no; I don't think so. It's all in the hands of Historic England to list buildings. They make a judgement based on certain criteria as to whether to add it to the National Heritage List for England, and once that is done, said building is protected by different planning laws. I don't think the council have any power of veto. It sounds like (from Cllr Iqbal's quote) that they did apply to block the listing, but that attempt failed. Local planning authorities do thereafter have some powers; you can still apply to do things to listed buildings just as with a non-listed building - even demolish parts of them - but those stricter laws surrounding them mean it takes longer and you have to have a really good case to do so. Since HE would then have more say in vetoing certain plans, there is also more chance of appeals etc. being escalated to higher law courts etc. etc. Basically, it all becomes more difficult, time consuming, and expensive to do what you want to do. Now ask yourself if any private developer has the time and the money to bother with that and you can see why this is probably a bad thing in the context of such a big building like John Lewis, in a city like Sheffield where development returns can be meagre. If the council have anything about them*, I would be knocking on the governments door asking them to pay for things like asbestos removal and other things. If Historic England want it listed, maybe they should offset some of the financial implications that SCC and the local community are now going to suffer because of that. *Narrator: "They didn't" Effectively what I was getting at above, but with much more detail 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
GinTreeS7 18 #242 Posted August 14, 2022 What an unsightly early 60s building .. they would be better restoring the Graves Park cafe .. more use to people ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
HeHasRisen 3,334 #243 Posted August 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, GinTreeS7 said: What an unsightly early 60s building .. they would be better restoring the Graves Park cafe .. more use to people ... Who is "they" in this scenario? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Zinger549 232 #244 Posted August 14, 2022 25 minutes ago, LovePotion said: I am hoping that Fenwick's or Flannel's will take it on. Sheffield needs more up-market stores. They have a Flannels in Medowhall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
HeHasRisen 3,334 #245 Posted August 15, 2022 Stop it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
MJ01 430 #246 Posted August 15, 2022 10 hours ago, LovePotion said: I am hoping that Fenwick's or Flannel's will take it on. Sheffield needs more up-market stores. Fenwicks take it over It's the store of your dreams - every thing you want & more It's card only What happens next Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Zinger549 232 #247 Posted August 15, 2022 9 hours ago, LovePotion said: Not good for those living in the South West. And not good for footfall in the city centre. Well I doubt they'll open another store. Flannels is aimed at the younger market so they'll be more likely to go to Medowhall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
AndrewC 271 #248 Posted August 15, 2022 (edited) On 11/08/2022 at 14:59, AndrewC said: Since HE would then have more say in vetoing certain plans, there is also more chance of appeals etc. being escalated to higher law courts etc. etc. Basically, it all becomes more difficult, time consuming, and expensive to do what you want to do. Now ask yourself if any private developer has the time and the money to bother with that and you can see why this is probably a bad thing in the context of such a big building like John Lewis, in a city like Sheffield where development returns can be meagre. Just to add an important bit which someone - who knows these things better than I do (they work in the industry) - over on another forum has just clarified. Bit lengthy, but worth a read (if you care): Quote If the council puts in an application to demolish then it is highly likely that it would go to the Secretary of Sate to decide. This is the relevant rule: Where a local planning authority require listed building consent for the demolition, alteration or extension of a listed building in their area and the following conditions are met the authority shall make application to the Secretary of State for that consent. a) The authority have notified the Commission and the National Amenity Societies of the application in accordance with any direction issued by the Secretary of State under section 15 (5) of the Act; b) The authority have received an objection to the application from any of the above bodies within 21 days of the date of issue of the notice; and c) The authority does not propose to refuse the application. “objection = means a written notice to the authority setting out the objector’s reasons for objecting to the application and stating that the application should be referred to the Secretary of State.” Historic England would no doubt put in an objection and it would fall out of the council's hands. The Secretary of State (through a planning inspector) would then decide on the application and weigh up the harm to the heritage asset against the value of the proposed development. Listed buildings do still get demolished from time to time but it would have to one of a hell of a scheme put forward to gain approval. And it would have to justify that it 'has' to be on that particular site and therefore meaning the demolition of that building. I would definitely rule out the possibility of gaining approval to demolish the building without any definite scheme to replace it. e,g, demolish and leave as a development site for someone to then propose a scheme. Any replacement scheme would have to be tied to the application to demolish." Long story short; Any proposal to demolish/change part/all of the building would almost certainly go to the highest level of planning control in the country/government, and would need to be tied to a planned - and very high-quality/worthy - proposal for the site. Edited August 15, 2022 by AndrewC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Leo Tomlinson 51 #249 Posted August 15, 2022 14 hours ago, LovePotion said: I am hoping that Fenwick's or Flannel's will take it on. Sheffield needs more up-market stores. Market ground floor , night club basement , gym top floor , Restuarants middle floor . sorted . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Thirsty Relic 202 #250 Posted August 15, 2022 28 minutes ago, Leo Tomlinson said: Market ground floor , night club basement , gym top floor , Restuarants middle floor . sorted . I still think we keed to keep the car park - it could be operated seperately from the other concerns 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Resident 1,130 #251 Posted August 15, 2022 How long before Sheffield's mysterious 'gang of yoofs' show up...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Baron99 771 #252 Posted August 15, 2022 Let's face it. The listing of the John Lewis building is ridiculous. Surely there must be some process by which SCC can appeal against this decision, otherwise its just going to befome a council tax payer, black hole, swallowing money, year after year. I thought the idea of listing building was to preserve buildings of architectural importance or uniqueness? There must be thousands of 1960's old retail buildings across the UK. Let's face it, the old / new Town Hall extension was a more unique design that the JL building & we got rid of that. What next? A preservation order on Debenhams on The Moor? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...