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Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

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5 hours ago, RJRB said:

https://sheffieldcityregion.org.uk/active-travel-board/

Will somebody step forth and say that they participated in the discussion and were in favour of it.

All we have so far is people saying that they were not consulted.

The city region active travel board wouldn’t have been involved. This was an SCC scheme and the cabinet members decision.

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Surely it would only have taken a moments thought to realise that halving the capacity of an already heavily congested  ring road, to which so much traffic has been channelled would create a chaotic mess? 

 

And just because it's central government money doesn't make it acceptable to waste it.

 

Finally just to say I know of several anecdotal cases (me included) of people taking longer routes, burning more fossil fuel, just to avoid the mess round Shalesmoor, which isn't going to help the recently declared SCC climate change emergency.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Planner1 said:

The city region active travel board wouldn’t have been involved. This was an SCC scheme and the cabinet members decision.

http://democracy.sheffield.gov.uk/mgCommitteeMailingList.aspx?ID=120

So I assume that Bob Johnson is the man who has ultimate responsibility.

Its all very bizarre and in the absence of a spirited justification of the scheme,it would be be better for a quick reversal,rather than just letting it continue to run.

However I know that politicians will turn somersaults rather than admit they were wrong.

Edited by RJRB

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2 hours ago, NewBiz said:

Surely it would only have taken a moments thought to realise that halving the capacity of an already heavily congested  ring road, to which so much traffic has been channelled would create a chaotic mess? 

 

 

I've used that cycle path a lot- most of the time the traffic hasn't been that bad, certainly not a chaotic mess.

2 hours ago, NewBiz said:

Surely it would only have taken a moments thought to realise that halving the capacity of an already heavily congested  ring road, to which so much traffic has been channelled would create a chaotic mess? 

 

 

They may have been paying attention to the actual science, which points to reducing capacity as the only way to reduce congestion and pollution.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

I've used that cycle path a lot- most of the time the traffic hasn't been that bad, certainly not a chaotic mess.

That's because :

a) It's the summer holidays when traffic is hugely reduced

b) the majority of people are still working from home (I've just got back from my 1st trip to town since March, and the place is virtually deserted. I'd guess around 10% of the people you'd normally expect shopping, many shops shut, and few offices occupied)

 

All that said, my nephew took 45 mins to get through the area the other day at about 11am, and having been held up many times, has now started trying to avoid it (that's easier said than done when you work, and many of your meetings are in and around about a 5 mile radius of the city centre)

Edited by NewBiz

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1 hour ago, onewheeldave said:

I've used that cycle path a lot- most of the time the traffic hasn't been that bad, certainly not a chaotic mess.

They may have been paying attention to the actual science, which points to reducing capacity as the only way to reduce congestion and pollution.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

There are a number of adjectives that could be used.

Chaotic at times,needless and pointless all of the time.

The argument about induced demand can be and is questioned by many.At times it is just an excuse for the failed lack of investment in our transport system.

 

Roads are built for a purpose to interconnect local and National demands.

This is why this part of the ring road was developed and for a brief period appeared to be further improved to cater for existing demand.

I hope you have enjoyed your runs along the cycle path,but where exactly was your journey taking you from and to.

 

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4 hours ago, RJRB said:

http://democracy.sheffield.gov.uk/mgCommitteeMailingList.aspx?ID=120

So I assume that Bob Johnson is the man who has ultimate responsibility.

Its all very bizarre and in the absence of a spirited justification of the scheme,it would be be better for a quick reversal,rather than just letting it continue to run.

However I know that politicians will turn somersaults rather than admit they were wrong.

Yes, Councillor Johnson is the Cabinet Member.

 

There were media releases at the time the scheme was implemented in which he explained why it was put in.

 

I would not imagine the council would feel any need to further justify it.

17 minutes ago, RJRB said:

 

Roads are built for a purpose to interconnect local and National demands.

This is why this part of the ring road was developed and for a brief period appeared to be further improved to cater for existing demand.

 

Actually that road was built to relieve the West Bar area from through traffic, so it could be better integrated into the city centre and be more attractive for redevelopment. That’s why it’s called the Inner Relief Road.

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It’s part of a series of nudges to move people away from cars.

 

Given the amount of grumbling going on and the increased number of people cycling, its working. 

 

I managed a wheelie halfway from Wickes to Shalesmoor yesterday :D

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9 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Yes, Councillor Johnson is the Cabinet Member.

 

There were media releases at the time the scheme was implemented in which he explained why it was put in.

 

I would not imagine the council would feel any need to further justify it.

Actually that road was built to relieve the West Bar area from through traffic, so it could be better integrated into the city centre and be more attractive for redevelopment. That’s why it’s called the Inner Relief Road.

Not really seeking any justification .

Just acceptance that the scheme has not served a purpose and that the road will be returned to its intended use.

As a relief road to circumvent West Bar area it has some success.

I certainly avoid coming down from Brook Hill direction to turn right onto Derek Dooley Way like the plague.

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44 minutes ago, RJRB said:

 

The argument about induced demand can be and is questioned by many.At times it is just an excuse for the failed lack of investment in our transport system.

 

 

 

Induced demand is fairly well and long established science. The fact that it is questioned by some in no way diminishes its validity,  just as denying the science of climate change doesn't diminish that science.

 

One thing is very clear, over 81 pages of online discussion where I've mentioned induced demand several times, none of the anti-shalesmoor bike path motorists have engaged in any discussion of it.

 

It is the established science, and it does indicate that the best way to reduce the over-use of motor vehicles is to refrain from adding more lanes and instead, to reduce the existing number.

 

The council would presumably be expected to consult with the actual science in making decisions? In conjunction with the fact that the government is encouraging them to address the climate catastrophe caused in large part by overproduction and overuse of motor vehicles, combined with the opportunity over lockdown of many more people taking advantage of the temporary existence of roads safe for cyclists [due to lack of cars]; it seems to make sense for them to try this out.

 

Maybe it is time for some of the anti-shalesmoor bike path motorists to cease the strawmaning and ad hominem attacks, and start to state their arguments against induced demand? Maybe the reason for the lack of engagement is that they don't have any?

 

 

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, S666666 said:

It’s part of a series of nudges to move people away from cars.

 

Given the amount of grumbling going on and the increased number of people cycling, its working. 

 

I managed a wheelie halfway from Wickes to Shalesmoor yesterday :D

Go on, I know this is a troll, but I'll bite.  Increased number of people cycling?  So exactly how many MORE people are cycling on Shalesmoor now??  Will they still be doing it come December??

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57 minutes ago, RJRB said:

 

I hope you have enjoyed your runs along the cycle path,but where exactly was your journey taking you from and to.

 

I have enjoyed them. Previously I'd avoid that road like the plague due to the anxiety caused by large numbers of cars/vans/lorries bombing by within inches, putting my life at risk.

 

It's a very novel and nice feeling to cycle it feeling completely safe as the motor vehicles are prevented from getting close by actual barriers.

 

My many journeys along it have been to take me from my home to shops and back, as well as riding for fitness and health. As a side benefit my cycling there has helped diminish the climate catastrophe and the strain on the NHS.

 

Sad to think that if, or when, the scheme is removed, I'll have to go back to avoiding the area and will likely cycle less, removing some of the above mentioned benefits.

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