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Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

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1 hour ago, RJRB said:

Where to start.

Firstly I do admire your ambition for the future of world transport.

However I do find it difficult to comprehend a future without motor cars.

Perhaps cleaner methods of propulsion will continue to evolve but it will be evolution.

Then compare travelling times of any distance by cycle or other forms of motorised transport,

That is a considerable saving in time and convenience for most people most of the time.

Safe walking routes?

I think we are well served with pavements and pathways.

Cycles have a place in the scheme of things ,but the clever bit is deciding where.

Shame that most usually end up with cars parked on them, forcing walkers, wheelchairs and prams into the road, putting live at risk, because we have more cars than room to put them.

 

But cars and convenience before lives eh?

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15 minutes ago, darylslinn said:

Stick one of those at Brook Hill and a few bicycles could end up over the fence on to the tram tracks.

 

I saw three cyclists this morning, two on the pavement and one waiting at a crossing, blocking the cycle lane.

 

Beats me!

 

One cyclist only heading out of town. Yep - on the pavement!

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21 minutes ago, Bargepole23 said:

Shame that most usually end up with cars parked on them, forcing walkers, wheelchairs and prams into the road, putting live at risk, because we have more cars than room to put them.

 

But cars and convenience before lives eh?

I think that your attempts to make an argument are getting a tad ridiculous.

I might as well argue that all cycles should be banned from the roads because they fail to comply with road signage,cycle on pavements and endanger pedestrians.

But I won’t because I have been a cyclist 

Or perhaps  pushchairs should be licensed as some mothers push them into the road whilst studying their text messages.

Edited by RJRB

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9 hours ago, RJRB said:

I think that your attempts to make an argument are getting a tad ridiculous.

I might as well argue that all cycles should be banned from the roads because they fail to comply with road signage,cycle on pavements and endanger pedestrians.

But I won’t because I have been a cyclist 

Or perhaps  pushchairs should be licensed as some mothers push them into the road whilst studying their text messages.

Is pavement parking not an issue in the provision of safe walking routes, for example, to allow kids to walk to school unaccompanied?

 

Where have I suggested banning cars?

 

The goal is to reduce car usage and increase walking, cycling, public transport usage. Only positive outcomes from that.

 

Gives those who have no access or means to afford a personal car a fighting chance too.

Edited by Bargepole23

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2 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

Is pavement parking not an issue in the provision of safe walking routes, for example, to allow kids to walk to school unaccompanied?

 

Where have I suggested banning cars?

 

The goal is to reduce car usage and increase walking, cycling, public transport usage. Only positive outcomes from that.

 

Gives those who have no access or means to afford a personal car a fighting chance too.

I agree that your goals are beneficial for the environment and for personal health.

However this thread has meandered from its original intention i.e.to highlight what many consider to be a harebrained scheme into some specious and irrelevant anti cyclist/anti car postings.

In this alone the scheme has been a failure by doing no favours in any respect to cyclists.It seems to have been hastily implemented to grab a time limited offer of government money,and I fail to see that it can be called a success on any level.

As far as the bold sentence is concerned,I just don’t agree that this is the reason why young kids are accompanied to primary schools.

By the age of ten or eleven I see many walking to school and this increases to virtually 100% at Secondary schools.I don’t see many ,if any cycling to school.

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Lois Pryce,

Radio 4 9.30 Forethought -A war on 2 wheels

 

I don't know if this is available as a podcast but it was quite an interesting take on how cycling has developed recently in the U.K. as opposed to how it is viewed in other European countries.

As a person who gets around on a bike she argued against the Lycra clad fashion and expensive cycles being promoted by the industry in favour of a more mundane and practical use of bikes.

Bring back the shopper bikes with the baskets on the front.

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On 11/08/2020 at 09:38, altus said:

All current cyclists were new cyclists once and some of them have only recently started/resumed. It's nonsense to claim any advice they could give would be unsuitable. People who don't cycle don't have practical experience of the issues involved. Asking committed car drivers why they don't cycle would be like a seafood restaurant asking vegans why they don't eat there.

again, mixing up reviews with consultations. A review of a restaurant from any source will give the reviewers views only and at that of a completed project used by its target audience. 

A consultation would include the opinions of a cross section of society for against and undecided. You can learn from the undecided what it would take to get them to your restaurant / cycle lane and learn from that. Not all car drivers are totally committed and biased and many would cycle if the situation was suitable for them. This is why the car driver should be consulted as they are indeed the target of this campaign. Yes, consult cycling groups but not exclusively as was done here. That will never get people out of cars, just improve the journey of one or two cyclists. A bit like what has happened here.

 

To continue the restaurant comparison, if you were to be thinking of opening a vegan restaurant  and ran a consultation, you should include all potential restaurant users, vegan or not (because not all wear their veganism as a badge) ask appropriate questions and learn from the responses. This would give an idea if a vegan restaurant would be likely to work. Just asking vegans wold give you a very biased yes even though you may only get 10 responses from vegans and they may never dine out.

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4 hours ago, busdriver1 said:

Yes, consult cycling groups but not exclusively as was done here. That will never get people out of cars, just improve the journey of one or two cyclists. A bit like what has happened here.

Not sure where the idea has come from that cycling groups were consulted on the Shalesmoor scheme. No-one was consulted.

 

I mentioned once that the Council speak to cycling groups and understand their priorities, but that’s just liaison with a stakeholder group, not consultation.

Edited by Planner1

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12 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Not sure where the idea has come from that cycling groups were consulted on the Shalesmoor scheme. No-one was consulted.

 

I mentioned once that the Council speak to cycling groups and understand their priorities, but that’s just liaison with a stakeholder group, not consultation.

So no consultation/consideration - just 'lets disrupt a major arterial road, because we can', then.

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1 hour ago, Planner1 said:

Not sure where the idea has come from that cycling groups were consulted on the Shalesmoor scheme. No-one was consulted.

 

I mentioned once that the Council speak to cycling groups and understand their priorities, but that’s just liaison with a stakeholder group, not consultation.

https://sheffieldcityregion.org.uk/active-travel-board/

Will somebody step forth and say that they participated in the discussion and were in favour of it.

All we have so far is people saying that they were not consulted.

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2 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Not sure where the idea has come from that cycling groups were consulted on the Shalesmoor scheme. No-one was consulted.

 

I mentioned once that the Council speak to cycling groups and understand their priorities, but that’s just liaison with a stakeholder group, not consultation.

Well what a surprise!!  So, no one but themselves to blame for the complete pigs ear they have produced

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4 hours ago, alchemist said:

Well what a surprise!!  So, no one but themselves to blame for the complete pigs ear they have produced

Why is it a surprise? The cabinet member said in a media statement shortly after the scheme was implemented that there was no consultation because the short timescale dictated by the government funding scheme didn’t allow it.

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