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Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

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34 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

????How do you read my post and think that I've suggested anything like that???

No, I'm simply giving reasons why not many cyclists are on it at this early stage.

 

I had no particular reason to be on it this morning, other than I really like the very unusual feeling of being safe on a road on a cycle. I hope though that cyclists from Totley and other distant areas of Sheffield do come down when they hear about the cycle path, because the more cyclists who experience that very rare feeling of being safe on a road, the more likely it is that they will insist on more proper safe cycling routes being instigated.

 

EDIT- forgot to mention, traffic was fine at that time [12 noon], cars flowing smoothly despite the cycle path.

How did I read your post and think that??  Lets see...

 

"There are several reasons why uptake in this very early stage is low-

 

1. most Sheffield cyclists do not know it exists"

 

This, by its very nature implies that if they knew it existed most Sheffield cyclists would use it

 

So you are hoping to attract the leisure and tourist cyclists who dont need to actually go anywhere now its on the map?  Shalesmoor Road????

 

However my question re numbers of cyclists in north Sheffield wanting to use that route still stands

Edited by alchemist

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5 minutes ago, Michael_N said:

Cars will be flowing freely now through Shalesmoor, as most will have made new rat-runs elsewhere, namely Netherthorpe and Neepsend. Just moved the traffic problem from the main inner ring road, to side roads...

 

The Council’s traffic control team have been refining the way the signals operate in the area, to help flows. It’s equally possible that this work is paying off. Probably a mixture of this and drivers now avoiding the area.

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33 minutes ago, Michael_N said:

Cars will be flowing freely now through Shalesmoor, as most will have made new rat-runs elsewhere, namely Netherthorpe and Neepsend. Just moved the traffic problem from the main inner ring road, to side roads...

More likely to be the time of day- 12 noon, outside of rush hour. 

 

Maybe it's working as intended, and some motorists on non essential short journeys have got sick of the traffic and walked/cycled instead?

26 minutes ago, alchemist said:

How did I read your post and think that??  Lets see...

 

"There are several reasons why uptake in this very early stage is low-

 

1. most Sheffield cyclists do not know it exists"

 

This, by its very nature implies that if they knew it existed most Sheffield cyclists would use it

 

 

No, it doesn't. I don't imply, I say. if most cyclists don't know it exists, obviously not many cyclists will use it. If more did, or most did, then some would use it, certainly more would, no reason to think most would

26 minutes ago, alchemist said:

 

 

So you are hoping to attract the leisure and tourist cyclists who dont need to actually go anywhere now its on the map?  Shalesmoor Road????

 

 

If they want the unique experience of being safe on a busy Sheffield road, then yes. This is the only road cycle path in the area where you can't be hit by a car.  

Edited by onewheeldave

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45 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

 

The Council’s traffic control team have been refining the way the signals operate in the area, to help flows. It’s equally possible that this work is paying off. Probably a mixture of this and drivers now avoiding the area.

So no reduction in cars, just cars displaced onto the roads that this stretch was built to take them off. Genius.

2 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

An evidence of damage to local businesses?

All the science says that, long term, emmisions will be reduced by such schemes.

As I clearly stated in a previous comment I do not have direct evidence, but ask yourself if you were running (or trying to run) a business in that area would you be welcoming this " improvement"?

 

Emissions may well be reduced in this immediate area. They may well rise on the rat runs and in the other towns and cities where people take their business to.

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44 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

 

Maybe it's working as intended, and some motorists on non essential short journeys have got sick of the traffic and walked/cycled instead?

Or maybe they have gone elsewhere instead making Sheffield lose out.

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6 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

 

As I clearly stated in a previous comment I do not have direct evidence, but ask yourself if you were running (or trying to run) a business in that area would you be welcoming this " improvement"?

 

 

It is likely that there is, as you say, no evidence of damage to business, could be due to the fact that there is no damage to local businesses. It's not like they'd be getting passing trade from the thousands of cars rolling past at high speed.

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

 

As I clearly stated in a previous comment I do not have direct evidence, but ask yourself if you were running (or trying to run) a business in that area would you be welcoming this " improvement"?

 

 

I may well do- if I was a cyclist, or, if I had children and didn't want them growing up in a post environmental catastrophe, or if I had health concerns about me breathing in constant traffic fumes from the vast number of cars passing constantly at the place of my work, etc, etc.

 

12 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

 

 

Emissions may well be reduced in this immediate area. They may well rise on the rat runs and in the other towns and cities where people take their business to.

Maybe, in the short term. But if you look at the science ['induced demand'] total emmisions fall, due in part to drivers just getting sick of the slow moving traffic and switching to other modes.

 

It is well-established science that has been done over decades- if roads are widened, traffic increase long term, thus so do emmisions. Limiting traffic has the opposite effect.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

Or maybe they have gone elsewhere instead making Sheffield lose out.

Maybe they have, and, in some ways Sheffield has lost out [business] in the short term. In others it has gained [clean air]. If this progress continues, who knows how businesses may be created due directly to the increase in cycling, the better air quality etc.

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Interestingly I wrote to all 3 of my local (labour) councillors and asked their opinions on the shalesmoor scheme - 2 replied to say they have sent my request onto Mr Bob Johnson and asked him to reply - surprise surprise no response and the other councillor hasn't replied

Also wrote to my mp Clive Betts who to be fair has replied and said he too was surprised by this scheme in this place and was contacting the council for their views/comments 

 

I'm not holding out huge hope but I still hold out that eventually the council will realise what a mess they have made of it but there again this is the same council that on the day before the pubs reopened told people not to go in them because covid 19 was hiding in the pubs waiting for them - total numptys

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6 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

Maybe they have, and, in some ways Sheffield has lost out [business] in the short term. In others it has gained [clean air]. If this progress continues, who knows how businesses may be created due directly to the increase in cycling, the better air quality etc.

You keep harping on about an increase in cycling due to this perfection in cycling lanes but do you have any actual proof, or is it mere conjecture?  Or dont you do conjecture either?

 

BTW, what businesses would be created by increased cycling and clean air?  BESIDES a couple more cycling accessories shops?

 

How many cyclists ARE there in the north of Sheffield that will now use this route all year round??   So far the most ive seen mentioned on this forum are 5.  Do they use it every day?  

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32 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

As I clearly stated in a previous comment I do not have direct evidence, but ask yourself if you were running (or trying to run) a business in that area would you be welcoming this " improvement"?

I would be.

 

Theres evidence that retail sales can increase where walking and cycling improvements are made. And it appears that people who walk and cycle visit more often than drivers and spend more overall. See this study: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-cycling-economic-benefits-summary-pack.pdf

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2 minutes ago, alchemist said:

You keep harping on about an increase in cycling due to this perfection in cycling lanes but do you have any actual proof, or is it mere conjecture?  Or dont you do conjecture either?

 

  

The main reason people don't cycle in Sheffield is that it isn't safe. When it is safe, it follows that those people who want to cycle but don't because it isn't safe, will then cycle.

 

Look at Amsterdam- it is safe to cycle there, and, as a direct consequence, lots of the population cycle.

5 minutes ago, alchemist said:

 

 

BTW, what businesses would be created by increased cycling and clean air?  BESIDES a couple more cycling accessories shops?

 

  

If a third or quarter or half of all traffic becomes cycles, that's way more than a couple of cycle accessory shops.

 

And motorists who switch completely from their cash gobbling cars [road tax, fuel, insurance, repairs, future environmental taxes and many more] to cycling are going to have a huge amount of cash to invest in their new hobby and transport.

8 minutes ago, alchemist said:

 

 

How many cyclists ARE there in the north of Sheffield that will now use this route all year round??   So far the most ive seen mentioned on this forum are 5.  Do they use it every day?  

Most cyclists avoid the area- it's an unsafe and unpleasant road. Until now of course.

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33 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

Or maybe they have gone elsewhere instead making Sheffield lose out.

How many do you really think that is? Hardly any I’d guess.

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