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Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

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7 minutes ago, Blue Day said:

Ok. I get ya. 
 

Keep ploughing on with the same message. It’s good to have another side to the argument even tho it seems not many agree. 
 

Walk or cycle eh? In Britain. For up to 3 miles each way. 
 

Hmmmmm

Which is exactly what I’ve been saying. Car drivers won’t stop using the car unless you make them.

 

3 miles isn’t that far really. How long does it take people to do that kind of distance into the city centre at peak times by car (including parking the car and walking to your final destination)? You can walk that distance in sub 40 mins and cycle it in about 15 mins. Cycling is the quickest form of urban transport.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, forgeman said:

Only to create problems where there were none before

Well, let's see.

 

All these same arguments were made by car users in the Netherlands in the 1970s. And look at them now.

 

btw I'm a car user, but would rather cycle. I don't because of the dangers posed by other car users. So I would be happy if we could get more people to move over to cycling and have proper segregated cycle lanes.

Edited by nightrider

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If I could walk 40 minutes each way I would.

 

This thread was started due to Shalesmoor being congested which is a ring road and is if I'm wrong supposedly a route AROUND the city centre.

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2 minutes ago, forgeman said:

Only to create problems where there were none before

Which bits of the main highway network around the city have no queuing problems at peak times? 
 

What ends to happen is different drivers use different alternative routes and the traffic tends to percolate away across the network. Yes, there’s more traffic on the alternatives. What do you expect?

 

Like I’ve said, drivers won’t get out of their cars unless car use is made slower, more difficult and/or more costly.

 

If the vast majority of car commuting trips are under 5km, you can’t argue that many of those drivers could switch mode if they wanted to. 

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1 minute ago, forgeman said:

If I could walk 40 minutes each way I would.

 

This thread was started due to Shalesmoor being congested which is a ring road and is if I'm wrong supposedly a route AROUND the city centre.

I thought Planners argument was that much of the car traffic is not through traffic, but people driving < 1  mile. Get rid of the latter and the ring road will have throughput for long distance traffic?

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2 minutes ago, forgeman said:

If I could walk 40 minutes each way I would.

 

This thread was started due to Shalesmoor being congested which is a ring road and is if I'm wrong supposedly a route AROUND the city centre.

Yes, and many drivers use it as part of their commute in the city. If a good amount of those who could switch mode, actually did, there would be no traffic problem.

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3 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Ah, that old chestnut. The emergency services have sirens and flashing lights, drivers get out of their way and they manage to get around just fine even at peak traffic times. Emergency services are consulted on changes to the highway network and their views are taken seriously.

how do you move a 40 foot artic out of the way in one lane?

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1 minute ago, MICK BADGER said:

how do you move a 40 foot artic out of the way in one lane?

How many times are emergency services stuck behind such a vehicle?

 

If the emergency services have a real problem with something, they will talk to the council about it. Most times, if, because of changes, they now find it slower to go that way, they will use an alternative route.

 

The emergency services are very pragmatic and accept that they will sometimes get caught in traffic. It is not practical to have unobstructed access for emergency vehicles at all times on all routes. They fully understand this and plan for it.

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3 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Says who?

 

Motorists are not the only highway users. This improvement is for non-motorised modes.

 

In a constrained network, you can't promote a step change in travel mode choice without inconveniencing some types of highway user.

 

It's fairly obvious that many car drivers will not change mode unless they are made to. Making car drivers trips slower, more difficult and more costly are all tools of demand management and that is what you are seeing here. It is policy at national government and local government levels to get huge increases in the numbers of people walking and cycling over coming years. That won't be achieved by just letting car drivers continue as normal.

 

The government and local councils have seen big increases in cycling and walking in lockdown and they want to  keep those people travelling sustainably as we come out of lockdown. The government are telling local councils to introduce measures to facilitate this and are giving them the money to do it. Thats why you are seeing measures like this emerging in all towns and cities. If the policy aims are to be delivered, its just the start and you are going to see a lot more.

Says the council, in 2019, when they voted to widen Derek Dooleys way between Corporation Street and the Parkway, a project they have only just finished.

 

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/traffic-and-travel/ps46-million-traffic-busting-scheme-sheffield-city-centre-due-be-complete-next-summer-39655

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16 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

 

 

Like I’ve said, drivers won’t get out of their cars unless car use is made slower, more difficult and/or more costly.

 

If the vast majority of car commuting trips are under 5km, you can’t argue that many of those drivers could switch mode if they wanted to. 

That first line says it all...shocking!

 

It's better to have a carrot rather than stick approach. The current public transport system in Sheffield is next to useless for many; who wants to devote an entire afternoon to do a shopping trip or a visit because of the bus timetables and routes being as they are? ...not me.

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6 minutes ago, BoroB said:

Says the council, in 2019, when they voted to widen Derek Dooleys way between Corporation Street and the Parkway, a project they have only just finished.

 

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/traffic-and-travel/ps46-million-traffic-busting-scheme-sheffield-city-centre-due-be-complete-next-summer-39655

That article was about a particular improvement which was needed at one location. They don’t make any general statement about what a highway improvement scheme must or must not include.

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2 minutes ago, covfeffe said:

That first line says it all...shocking!

 

It's better to have a carrot rather than stick approach. The current public transport system in Sheffield is next to useless for many; who wants to devote an entire afternoon to do a shopping trip or a visit because of the bus timetables and routes being as they are? ...not me.

Shocking as it might seem to you, it is adopted policy by your national government and the regional and local transport authorities here and around the country.

 

The “carrot” doesn’t appear to work. Most car drivers wouldn’t use public transport even if it was frequent and free, so the only way to make them switch modes is to make the one they currently use more difficult / expensive until enough of them make the change.

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