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Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

 

 

Not convinced? Think of Fargate and the Moor being pedestrianised back in the 1970's and just imagine the wails from motorists who were suddenly denied the chance to park outside Marks and Spencers. I bet that plenty were writing to the Star to say that they would never ever come into Sheffield city centre ever again. Who can imagine Fargate and The Moor not being pedestrianised now? 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Tony but Shalemoor is not one of the main shopping areas of the city, it's an arterial road used by many vehicles, some of whom will probably visit the Moor or Fargate for either delivery or shopping purposes.

1 hour ago, Planner1 said:

More about convincing people who have started cycling during the Covid lock-down to continue to do so as traffic levels start to rise again.

Should we not convince them to make regular use of the cycle lanes that are there first, like the one on Penistone Road?

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Build it and they will come - in time .

 

Thats part of the problem with the Shalesmoor scheme, the council has just completed a multi million road improvement scheme to cope with the volume of traffic.

 

So its been a case of build, ignore and impede the improvement that they felt were needed in that area.

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26 minutes ago, BoroB said:

Should we not convince them to make regular use of the cycle lanes that are there first, like the one on Penistone Road?

I believe the idea for the temporary cycle lane is for it to link up the existing facilities on Penistone Rd  and the Grey to Green project, providing better cycle access to part of the city centre.

 

Whether or not to use a cycle lane is a matter for individuals to decide. Many experienced cyclists don't want or need to use cycle lanes and are happy to use general traffic lanes because its faster. We are all road users in one form or another

31 minutes ago, BoroB said:

Correct me if I'm wrong Tony but Shalemoor is not one of the main shopping areas of the city, it's an arterial road used by many vehicles, some of whom will probably visit the Moor or Fargate for either delivery or shopping purposes.

I can't imagine that many drivers along that stretch are going to Fargate or the Moor, you'd have branched off before you get to that stretch if it was the case.

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26 minutes ago, BoroB said:

Thats part of the problem with the Shalesmoor scheme, the council has just completed a multi million road improvement scheme to cope with the volume of traffic.

 

So its been a case of build, ignore and impede the improvement that they felt were needed in that area.

That scheme started in planning several years ago.

 

The Covid pandemic has presented what many people regard as a once in a lifetime opportunity to do things differently in terms of how we travel. The government has also provided funds for immediate, "emergency" measures. What are the Council supposed to do? Stick with what's been done before, or try something different?

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1 minute ago, Planner1 said:

That scheme started in planning several years ago.

 

The Covid pandemic has presented what many people regard as a once in a lifetime opportunity to do things differently in terms of how we travel. The government has also provided funds for immediate, "emergency" measures. What are the Council supposed to do? Stick with what's been done before, or try something different?

Try something different but VIABLE without impacting so severely (negatively) on existing infrastructure & mode of travel choice/necessity for thousands!!

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1 hour ago, Donny B Good said:

And the answer to cyclists passing traffic lights at red whilst having no insurance is that the rest of us need to "get a grip if we suffer this ridiculous malaise"?

The remedy for cyclists who disobey signals is already in place. The police can enforce it and they do in some cases. If you want it more rigidly enforced, more often, tell them. The actual incidence of red light abuse is actually quite low and the risks involved are also quite low. I saw some mention of in London, surveys showed only 16% of cyclists disobey red lights and you'd expect that to be worse there than here.

 

As for insurance, you might be surprised how many cyclists actually do have third party liability insurance either through membership of a cycling body or via other insurance. There isn't any country that I know of which has mandatory cycle insurance. Also, most European countries operate a presumed liability system for cycling collisions ie the motorist is presumed to be at fault unless they can prove otherwise.

13 minutes ago, Igor said:

Try something different but VIABLE without impacting so severely (negatively) on existing infrastructure & mode of travel choice/necessity for thousands!!

Basically you are saying they should maintain the status quo and tinker round the edges. That's what's been happening for decades and it's proven not to work too well.

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3 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

The remedy for cyclists who disobey signals is already in place. The police can enforce it and they do in some cases. If you want it more rigidly enforced, more often, tell them. The actual incidence of red light abuse is actually quite low and the risks involved are also quite low. I saw some mention of in London, surveys showed only 16% of cyclists disobey red lights and you'd expect that to be worse there than here.

 

As for insurance, you might be surprised how many cyclists actually do have third party liability insurance either through membership of a cycling body or via other insurance. There isn't any country that I know of which has mandatory cycle insurance. Also, most European countries operate a presumed liability system for cycling collisions ie the motorist is presumed to be at fault unless they can prove otherwise.

Tell the police about traffic violations you are having a laugh , they do not turn up for break ins or other crimes very often , the mobile phone while driving law is the biggest joke ever , and , this use of the mobile is the biggest cause of cyclists and pedestrians getting killed and injured on a daily basis . That is the biggest reason  why cyclists and walkers need protecting from the car .

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Cycling will always be a minority interest in Sheffield, it's just to hilly to be viable for most people, and apart from commuting to and from work, what do the council think people will generally be cycling, on a day to day basis, for?? 

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15 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Basically you are saying they should maintain the status quo and tinker round the edges. That's what's been happening for decades and it's proven not to work too well.

Basically that is not what I stated!

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29 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

The remedy for cyclists who disobey signals is already in place. The police can enforce it and they do in some cases. If you want it more rigidly enforced, more often, tell them. The actual incidence of red light abuse is actually quite low and the risks involved are also quite low. I saw some mention of in London, surveys showed only 16% of cyclists disobey red lights and you'd expect that to be worse there than here.

 

 

Last set of figures I could find for London were from around 2017 when it's reckoned there were 180,000 cyclist.  So that's 28,800 jumping red lights, putting themselves in danger as well as having the potential for causing other road users to have an accident but more than likely scarpering before the police arrive. 

 

Yes the number is miniscule isn't it?  Hardly worth mentioning. 

Edited by Baron99

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20 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

 

Yes the number is miniscule isn't it?  Hardly worth mentioning. 

I described the number as quite low, which it is, compared to the number who do comply with the law. As I said, the potential risks of a cyclist going through a red light is pretty low, that’s because they slow down, have a look round and carry on only if safe to do so. The risks involved when motorists contravene red lights are much more severe. 

 

The point is, If you listen to some people on here, they make out that the majority of cyclists ride irresponsibly, which is simply not true and it isn’t a major risk factor for the cyclists or others.

38 minutes ago, Igor said:

Basically that is not what I stated!

Yes you did. You were asking for Cycling interventions that don’t affect others much, which is what transport authorities have been trying to do for decades and it hasn’t produced great results. Same old interventions, same old results. Nothing significant is going to be achieved without more radical measures.

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49 minutes ago, covfeffe said:

Cycling will always be a minority interest in Sheffield, it's just to hilly to be viable for most people, and apart from commuting to and from work, what do the council think people will generally be cycling, on a day to day basis, for?? 

Going to the local shops, leisure facilities and for exercise, basically most trips of up to 5km. Sheffield is not too hilly. Bern in Switzerland has good levels of cycling for just one example of somewhere that isn’t exactly flat. 
 

Bikes have gears and they are low enough to get up any hill. For those who really aren’t fit enough or who don’t want to put in that level of effort, there are lots of electric bikes nowadays, which make hills an absolute breeze. 

Edited by Planner1

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