Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

[onewheeldave 22]

7 minutes ago, makapaka said:

But they’ve completely changed it by closing a lane off.

 

so it’s not helping traffic it all is it.

 

this is my point - there must have been a detailed study as to why these improvements were required and why they were beneficial - they were then implemented at a significant cost.

 

any improvement gleaned has now been removed by way of the removal of a lane.

 

where is the study that demonstrates this change is needed and is effective for both cyclists and vehicles? 
 

 

The 2 links I gave above show that it should benefit traffic long term.

 

It's certainly going to be effective for cyclists- I rode there today on both lanes, it's quite a surreal feeling as a cyclist to realise that, unlike the other road/'cycle paths' you are actually safe from being hit by a car, as there are no cars in the lane.

 

I would recommend all cyclists to get in there and use it- show that there is a need for this, hopefully get it extended.

 

The main factor discouraging more cycling is that the current road system clogged with way too many cars/vans/lorries is both highly unpleasant for, and dangerous to, cyclists.

Edited July 8, 2020 by onewheeldave

[RJRB 688]

33 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

You'd have to define 'bad road scheme'.

This one is basically removing a lane of traffic, which if you look at the science, generally reduces congestion long term-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_diet

 

Going to be fun on The Parkway then.

 

 

[Guest makapaka]

10 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

The 2 links I gave above show that it should benefit traffic long term.

I meant a specific study on that section of road.

 

[RJRB 688]

12 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

The 2 links I gave above show that it should benefit traffic long term.

 

It's certainly going to be effective for cyclists- I rode there today on both lanes, it's quite a surreal feeling as a cyclist to realise that, unlike the other road/'cycle paths' you are actually safe from being hit by a car, as there are no cars in the lane.

 

I would recommend all cyclists to get in there and use it- show that there is a need for this, hopefully get it extended.

 

The main factor discouraging more cycling is that the current road system clogged with way too many cars/vans/lorries is both highly unpleasant for, and dangerous to, cyclists.

Of course it’s going to be effective for cyclists.

Making half a pavement only available to blind people would be beneficial to the blind.

It would inconvenience the vast majority but so what

Pehaps it will form a stage for the next Tour de France which should boost numbers.

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by RJRB

[creweblade 10]

Issue here is there was already a cycle lane and a 20ft wide pavement to the left of the now additional (hopefully temporary) cycle lane - still I'm sure the one cyclist an hour that use it will be pleased and can smile at the hundreds of car drivers stuck in the never ending congestion although guess they wont enjoy the additional pollutant from crawling along cars - that's without mentioning all the money now wasted on improving the ring road recently that has been rendered useless at a stroke by the numptys at SCC  . I'm all for cycle lanes where they make sense but the one at shalesmoor is plain daft 

[BoroB 10]

6 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Of course it’s going to be effective for cyclists.

Making half a pavement only available to blind people would be beneficial to the blind.

It would inconvenience the vast majority but so what

Pehaps it will form a stage for the next Tour de France which should boost numbers.

 

 

 

Queues might not be far off France by time the councils done!

 

[Weredoomed 10]

32 minutes ago, makapaka said:

But they’ve completely changed it by closing a lane off.

 

so it’s not helping traffic it all is it.

 

this is my point - there must have been a detailed study as to why these improvements were required and why they were beneficial - they were then implemented at a significant cost.

 

any improvement gleaned has now been removed by way of the removal of a lane.

 

where is the study that demonstrates this change is needed and is effective for both cyclists and vehicles? 
 

 

It doesn't exist. There is no way this scheme is justifiable on a technical basis. Blinkered, ill-considered, politically motivated dogma - now that's a different story.

[Guest makapaka]

3 minutes ago, creweblade said:

Issue here is there was already a cycle lane and a 20ft wide pavement to the left of the now additional (hopefully temporary) cycle lane - still I'm sure the one cyclist an hour that use it will be pleased and can smile at the hundreds of car drivers stuck in the never ending congestion although guess they wont enjoy the additional pollutant from crawling along cars - that's without mentioning all the money now wasted on improving the ring road recently that has been rendered useless at a stroke by the numptys at SCC  . I'm all for cycle lanes where they make sense but the one at shalesmoor is plain daft 

I agree.

 

i have no issue with cycle lanes or cyclists.

 

i have an issue with ill thought out reactionary decisions.

[Weredoomed 10]

1 hour ago, onewheeldave said:

One would be disregarding very well established science showing that increasing road capacity always leads to more congestion long term [Induced Demand]-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

And yet, based on the traffic figures, the demand is already there and not being met.

 

Quite why anyone would base their business in Sheffield city centre is beyond me.

[Guest makapaka]

6 minutes ago, Weredoomed said:

And yet, based on the traffic figures, the demand is already there and not being met.

 

Quite why anyone would base their business in Sheffield city centre is beyond me.

One of the main issues I have is it’s the section of the ring road that takes you to the road out of Sheffield.

 

so a lot of cars are using it to get out of the city to work - and couldn’t use a cycle if they wanted to.

[Weredoomed 10]

24 minutes ago, makapaka said:

One of the main issues I have is it’s the section of the ring road that takes you to the road out of Sheffield.

 

so a lot of cars are using it to get out of the city to work - and couldn’t use a cycle if they wanted to.

There you go, bringing reality into the situation. SCC won't thank you for it you know.

 

Apparently everyone should walk or cycle everywhere, no matter their age or physical condition, the reason for their journey or however far they have to travel.

[onewheeldave 22]

1 hour ago, makapaka said:

I meant a specific study on that section of road.

 

When multiple studies show that in general, increasing road capacity leads, long term, to more congestion, and, that decreasing road capacity leads, long term, to decreased congestion, a study on a specific bit of road doesn't seem that necessary.

 

We give antibiotics to people with serious infections because they've been generally shown to kill infections in people. We don't insist on a study on a specific individual before giving him/her the antibiotic- it's not necessary, and, he/she would die of the infection well before the study could be completed.

 

 

1 hour ago, RJRB said:

Of course it’s going to be effective for cyclists.

Making half a pavement only available to blind people would be beneficial to the blind.

It would inconvenience the vast majority but so what

 

 

 

 

But that's what we need- proper safe provision for cyclists- to get way more people out of cars and onto cycles, because our current levels of cars are killing the environment and destroying our health system.

 

As for inconveniencing the majority, they're inconvenienced by the current system in which our roads simply do not work due to being clogged well beyond capacity.

If car use was cut by 80% and cycle use correspongingly increased we not only [maybe] save the environment and greatly improve public health [thus greatly lowering the load on the health system] but we also get roads that work for the car users as well.

1 hour ago, creweblade said:

Issue here is there was already a cycle lane and a 20ft wide pavement to the left of the now additional (hopefully temporary) cycle lane - still I'm sure the one cyclist an hour that use it will be pleased and can smile at the hundreds of car drivers stuck in the never ending congestion although guess they wont enjoy the additional pollutant from crawling along cars - that's without mentioning all the money now wasted on improving the ring road recently that has been rendered useless at a stroke by the numptys at SCC  . I'm all for cycle lanes where they make sense but the one at shalesmoor is plain daft 

The existing 'cycle lane' was a thin strip of paint at the edge of the road, full of grit, glass and crap- not fit for purpose, didn't make cyclists feel safe, and didn't encourage greater numbers of cyclists.

 

You're not, I suspect 'all for cycle lanes', you're for more strips of paint squeezed into the edge of roads that are generally either useless for, or, counter productive for, cyclists.

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Weredoomed said:

 

 

Apparently everyone should walk or cycle everywhere, no matter their age or physical condition, the reason for their journey or however far they have to travel.

That's a bit of a strawman- no-one is saying " everyone should walk or cycle everywhere, no matter their age or physical condition, the reason for their journey or however far they have to travel."

 

They are saying that most motorists should less cars a lot less than they do. A lot of car users clogging the roads are not disabled, or travelling a long distance.