Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

[Wazzock 10]

15 hours ago, convert said:

Agreed, there should be a public enquiry.

so your answer to a waste of money is to waste even more?

[RollingJ 2,042]

@Wazzock- That appears to be a standard SF response, unfortunately.

[Guest busdriver1]

10 minutes ago, Wazzock said:

so your answer to a waste of money is to waste even more?

A very good point. Let them investigate themselves and expect a reasoned outcome? REALLY? 

What we need is for ALL council staff, not just the elected ones, to be accountable for their actions and if that was the case we could build trust in our councils and prevent stupid schemes like this getting off the drawing board. Only then would our councils start to take the publics thoughts into account before acting.

At the minute we have full time staff quite happy to throw elected officials under the bus for following guidance given to them by those same full time staff.

[BigAl1 143]

So let me get this straight when there were no cars using the road they decided to make a cycle lane and now that the cars are back they get rid of it

 

 

[RJRB 688]

1 hour ago, Bigal1 said:

So let me get this straight when there were no cars using the road they decided to make a cycle lane and now that the cars are back they get rid of it

 

 

That’s about the size of it,but don’t forget that there has been only rare sightings of bicycles,tricycles and perhaps even a monocycle.

[Planner1 438]

4 hours ago, busdriver1 said:

A very good point. Let them investigate themselves and expect a reasoned outcome? REALLY? 

What we need is for ALL council staff, not just the elected ones, to be accountable for their actions and if that was the case we could build trust in our councils and prevent stupid schemes like this getting off the drawing board. Only then would our councils start to take the publics thoughts into account before acting.

At the minute we have full time staff quite happy to throw elected officials under the bus for following guidance given to them by those same full time staff.

What exactly are you wanting?

 

A public ballot for each and every measure the council introduces?

 

Can you provide evidence of council staff “ throwing elected officials under the bus”?

[Guest busdriver1]

27 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

What exactly are you wanting?

 

A public ballot for each and every measure the council introduces?

 

Can you provide evidence of council staff “ throwing elected officials under the bus”?

A very council reply. NO just held accountable. In the real world that means just that. Not an election for every decision to buy new pencils but accountable for their performance,. 

As for elected officials being thrown under the bus there are plenty examples in this thread alone. 

Oh no guv, I would never condone that, If you want to sort it there are elections coming along where you can get them out.

That style of comment sounds just like throwing an elected official under the bus for following the guidance of a full time employee. Dont you think so? Or shall we have a consultation about it?

3 hours ago, Bigal1 said:

So let me get this straight when there were no cars using the road they decided to make a cycle lane and now that the cars are back they get rid of it

 

 

Thats it with spin. Basically they closed off a lane on a busy stretch of road whose purpose was to remove traffic from the city centre and at the best of times is overused vs its capacity. There were enough vehicles  at the outset to cause chaos and affect businesses as they quote in their climb down document, and levels have risen since then.

[Planner1 438]

42 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

A very council reply. NO just held accountable. In the real world that means just that. Not an election for every decision to buy new pencils but accountable for their performance,. 

As for elected officials being thrown under the bus there are plenty examples in this thread alone. 

Oh no guv, I would never condone that, If you want to sort it there are elections coming along where you can get them out.

That style of comment sounds just like throwing an elected official under the bus for following the guidance of a full time employee. Dont you think so? Or shall we have a consultation about it?

As you will know very well and should understand, an employee is accountable to their employer ie their managers. 
 

That’s how employment law sees it and there isn’t a different law for public sector employees.

 

The council, like every other employer, has a process for dealing with misconduct and also a process to deal with capability issues. The public can never be informed of any such proceedings taken against an employee, because those matters are confidential between employee and employer as required by law. All a complainant can be told is that the matter is being dealt with through council processes. 

 

Members of the public can make complaints about anything that an officer does or the council does. There is a formal process for investigating complaints and an appeal process if the complainant isn’t happy with the result. The local government ombudsman can also investigate complaints.

So, there is accountability in place already.

 

Councillors are more than capable of defending their own actions.  They make the decisions, officers can only recommend or advise. They are also able to make official complaints if they are not happy with how officers are responding to their requests or the quality of briefings or recommendations doesn’t meet expectations. 
 

It is not uncommon for councillors to take a decision against officer advice or without consulting officers at all. That’s their prerogative. It’s they who are accountable to the electorate.
 

No, I disagree with your statement about officers throwing elected members under the bus. As far as I’m aware, no one in this thread has claimed to be an officer of SCC, so your statement is clearly untrue. If you disagree, provide evidence.

 

If you disagree about accountability, please do explain how you think officers could be more accountable, within current employment law. 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Planner1

[RJRB 688]

I think that many people  outside of the political and civil service sphere are at times just mystified at some of the ideas that gain support,such as this one.

Many of these people have livelihoods that depend on their ability and responsibility and rightly try to question the bland responses to pertinent questions that they wish to raise.

It’s not a case of making a specific complaint.

Its having trust in the system to serve the public in the best ways that they can and not to indulge in such flights of fancy,which only serve to alienate them from the public.

[Gligs 10]

I've been away for a few days. I see the mess that is the Shalesmoor cycle lane project is to be dismantled, no surprise there apart from that it took so long to see the hopelessness of it all, not to mention the cost. Yes we know, it was paid for by the government so that's all right then.

 

Whoever planned the scheme in the first place obviously has led a sheltered life as regards being out in the real world, knowing how few cyclists would be using the new system, and knowing the difficulties regular traffic would face getting from place to place with the least inconvenience and stress.

 

Would this ridiculous scheme have been voted through if Sheffield Council's  "Strong Leader" system had not been in place and all the councilors were allowed to vote? Sheffield is a good place, so why can't we have sensible people making sensible decisions?

[Planner1 438]

3 minutes ago, Gligs said:

I've been away for a few days. I see the mess that is the Shalesmoor cycle lane project is to be dismantled, no surprise there apart from that it took so long to see the hopelessness of it all, not to mention the cost. Yes we know, it was paid for by the government so that's all right then.

 

Whoever planned the scheme in the first place obviously has led a sheltered life as regards being out in the real world, knowing how few cyclists would be using the new system, and knowing the difficulties regular traffic would face getting from place to place with the least inconvenience and stress.

 

Would this ridiculous scheme have been voted through if Sheffield Council's  "Strong Leader" system had not been in place and all the councilors were allowed to vote? Sheffield is a good place, so why can't we have sensible people making sensible decisions?

Here we go, yet another attempted thread hijack to push the idea of a “modern” committee system.
 

Care to point us to ant other major city where it is working? 

 

Would the makeup of a committee not reflect the political balance in the council, so the majority party would get a vote through if they wanted to?

 

Are you suggesting that the representatives that the people of Sheffield elect aren’t sensible?
 

Whichever system you get, it is run by politicians, who make decisions for political reasons.

[RJRB 688]

4 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Here we go, yet another attempted thread hijack to push the idea of a “modern” committee system.
 

Care to point us to ant other major city where it is working? 

 

Would the makeup of a committee not reflect the political balance in the council, so the majority party would get a vote through if they wanted to?

 

Are you suggesting that the representatives that the people of Sheffield elect aren’t sensible?
 

Whichever system you get, it is run by politicians, who make decisions for political reasons.

I think that you have done your share of thread hi jacking.

Its about the logic and suitability of a hastily enacted scheme using public money.

You have defended the system that enabled it and passed responsibility to national and local politicians.

Asking sensible people to make sensible decisions is a reasonable view.

So strictly on the thread topic do you agree that it was a misguided waste of public money?