Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

[Planner1 428]

12 minutes ago, Weredoomed said:

Emergency?

Yes, the government call the funding pot the "Emergency Active Travel Fund" and the Council have carried out the works within the  timescales that the government require.

[RJRB 688]

I really don’t care whose idea it was.

Where was the person,or persons who should have raised the myriad of arguments and foreseen the consequences.

A few years ago the public was asked to nominate a road traffic scheme which was counterproductive.

The winner was a ridiculous left hand only turn on Owlerton Green,which was subsequently altered.

This scheme would be the current winner.

3 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Yes, the government call the funding pot the "Emergency Active Travel Fund" and the Council have carried out the works within the  timescales that the government require.

And grasped the available money for the sake of it.

[Weredoomed 10]

3 minutes ago, RJRB said:

I really don’t care whose idea it was.

Where was the person,or persons who should have raised the myriad of arguments and foreseen the consequences.

A few years ago the public was asked to nominate a road traffic scheme which was counterproductive.

The winner was a ridiculous left hand only turn on Owlerton Green,which was subsequently altered.

This scheme would be the current winner.

Stop asking awkward questions. However extremely pertinent they are. Someone might think SCC didn't have a clue, or care, what they were doing, at both officer and elected member level.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Weredoomed

[Martin C 81]

Planner1 may be retired.  Although I don't agree with everything he posts I always welcome the insight he provides - sometimes in the face of considerable criticism.

[Hayley1 10]

3 hours ago, Planner1 said:

The same as on any constrained section of carriageway at busy times, if the drivers can't sort it out themselves,  the police get involved to direct traffic, get recovery to the stranded vehicle and get it removed. The Police work closely with the Council and their control room can access the Council's traffic cameras, so they can see the wider picture and direct officers as necessary.

 

You can get the same issue at roadworks or other constrained points on the network.

 

If the Police or emergency services had a problem with the layout at Shalesmoor, they would have told the Council (they are statutory consultees). The Cabinet Member responsible for this scheme recently addressed this point in a statement , he said they had not received any complaints from the emergency services. 

No complaints from the Emergency services?...imagine if you or your loved one was waiting on this ambulance.   I saw this on the news last week:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-south-yorkshire-53340498/new-sheffield-cycle-lane-slows-ambulance-s-journey

 

And newspapers (obviously the star, but I don't need to add that link).

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ambulance-blocked-bike-lane-sheffield-a9609596.html

 

[Tony 10]

4 minutes ago, Hayley1 said:

...imagine if you or your loved one was waiting on this ambulance.   

Imagine if the ambulance had a car free lane to use in an emergency.  Loved ones will be very grateful for the cycle (and emergency ambulance) lane when it arrives quickly at rush hour.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Tony

[Hayley1 10]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

Imagine if the ambulance had a car free lane to use in an emergency.  Loved ones will be very grateful for the cycle (and emergency ambulance) lane when it arrives quickly at rush hour.

But the ambulance had to get to that point, already clogged up because the traffic couldn't flow because of the car free, empty lane. Then had to physically move the barrier to gain access to this empty lane....indeed EMPTY  lane...because they are closed off at the entrance to prevent any vehicle larger than a bike through.  It's not even permitting emergency vehicles to gain normal access. 

 

I have seen one solitary bike rider use that lane...and that was during rush hour (I use this route twice daily both in and out of the city)...and he used the red area, not the whole lane as intended. 

 

My original point stands regarding an alternative solution. 

[Planner1 428]

2 hours ago, Hayley1 said:

No complaints from the Emergency services?...imagine if you or your loved one was waiting on this ambulance.   I saw this on the news last week:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-south-yorkshire-53340498/new-sheffield-cycle-lane-slows-ambulance-s-journey

 

And newspapers (obviously the star, but I don't need to add that link).

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ambulance-blocked-bike-lane-sheffield-a9609596.html

 

And?

 

The Ambulance service clearly didn't make any complaint. They are pragmatic enough to understand that occasionally their vehicles might get held up in traffic. The quote from their spokesperson says exactly that.  They also learn very quickly where hold-ups occur and route a different way if it's quicker.

 

Expecting the emergency services to have unrestricted access across all the highway network at all times is unrealistic. They know this and don't expect it, so neither should you.

2 hours ago, Hayley1 said:

But the ambulance had to get to that point, already clogged up because the traffic couldn't flow because of the car free, empty lane. Then had to physically move the barrier to gain access to this empty lane....indeed EMPTY  lane...because they are closed off at the entrance to prevent any vehicle larger than a bike through.  It's not even permitting emergency vehicles to gain normal access. 

That's because due to the "emergency" / temporary nature of the scheme, temporary traffic management is in place, just like at roadworks. If the lane was made permanent, it would be enforced by camera so wouldn't need the barriers.

 

Emergency services face similar situations on a daily basis and are well used to dealing with them. It isn't an issue for them so why is it for you?

Edited July 20, 2020 by Planner1

[alchemist 35]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Imagine if the ambulance had a car free lane to use in an emergency.  Loved ones will be very grateful for the cycle (and emergency ambulance) lane when it arrives quickly at rush hour.

You mean that car free lane that the ambulance couldn't get into?  Yep, VERY useful THAT was!!!!

[alchemist 35]

Now we are a couple of weeks into this fiasco is the new cycle lane being swamped and indeed, overrun, by the hoards of desperate cyclists that the cycle apologists on here said would descend on it like a swarm of ravenous locusts??

[Tony 10]

The point about the ambulance is that it couldn't get into the lane because of temporary barriers. That will change when the cycle lane is made permanent and the temporary barriers are removed.

 

Something like this.

 

 

Or this maybe

 

 

The ambulance argument is a red herring once a proper permanent solution has been installed. It is not worth repeating as a sensible argument against the cycle lane. 

[RJRB 688]

39 minutes ago, Tony said:

The point about the ambulance is that it couldn't get into the lane because of temporary barriers. That will change when the cycle lane is made permanent and the temporary barriers are removed.

 

Something like this.

 

 

Or this maybe

 

 

The ambulance argument is a red herring once a proper permanent solution has been installed. It is not worth repeating as a sensible argument against the cycle lane. 

No the best argument remains that it is an arterial road that cars use and cyclists don’t and never will in any numbers.

The second best argument is that the “boom “in cycling is very much the popularity of leisure cycling and will never be other than a minority option for commuters.

Plenty of cyclists out and about at weekends and evenings on a fine day heading out into the countryside.

Not so many heading out on their way to work or to do the weekly shopping,and certainly not if it’s raining.

The ambulance argument is a red herring,unless you are in it.

A broken down car in a single carriageway is just one of those things.

Being a lorry or a trades vehicle being needlessly delayed is just a minor inconvenience.

Most of the cycle lanes in Sheffield are just tokenism.Having put them in place they are not used or maintained,but they give a nod to some idealistic rubbish from the mandarins.

If cyclists are not competent or confident enough to use public roads then don’t use

them.I did manage this skill when I was 11 onwards ,not that I ever chose to head into town and preferably kept away from the bus and old tram routes.

The majority of cyclists still do but there are a fanatical few who wish to dis invent both the wheel and the IC engine.

Get real