Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

[Brooker11 10]

2 hours ago, darylslinn said:

Diary Of A Shalesmoor Traveller.....

I notice access to Shepherd Street (side of H Harrold's) has been opened up, whether it was the council or local businesses that did it I don't know.
Again this evening a police car with blues and twos tried to get through on the outward bound carriageway, but struggled as once again the traffic had nowhere to go.
Two journey's along the road today and still no sign of any cyclists.

 

I was on it this morning at about 9:20am, the traffic wasn't too bad to be fair but not a cyclist in site. Maybe they should ask the cycling groups they've been "consulting with" where they all are, the whole thing looks a complete and utter mess.

[Becky B 31]

One member of my cycling group has encouraged us to cycle along there "even if it's out of your way" to show the council that there are people who ride bikes and need space to do so safely.

 

My attempts to reason with this "logic" appear to have been entirely misunderstood.

 

We need to encourage people onto bikes, or at least away from the "slave to the car" mentality and get them thinking about other means of transport, being more active, but provision for cyclists needs to be logical, not just a random sop to use up money!  There are already enough cycle lanes that are useless...

 

Educating people to recognise that all road users have equal right, and being in a car doesn't make you better than someone else, would be more helpful (but then I guess there's always some who will  think they are more important than everyone else).

[Fudbeer 12]

Can anyone tell me the general consensus from cyclist's do they think its a good idea?

I read an article initially that  some thought it was badly thought out and the additional queuing traffic/pollution outweighed the benefits and the focus should be on routes away from roads.If so they seem to have scored a spectacular own goal of upsetting everyone.Would it not have been best to consult with road and cycle groups on how to best use the money?

Thought the whole idea of the inner ring road to have a wide/2 lane road that takes traffic away from other routes that are less suitable.

 

 

[Resident 1,193]

1 hour ago, Becky B said:

One member of my cycling group has encouraged us to cycle along there "even if it's out of your way" to show the council that there are people who ride bikes and need space to do so safely.

 

My attempts to reason with this "logic" appear to have been entirely misunderstood.

 

We need to encourage people onto bikes, or at least away from the "slave to the car" mentality and get them thinking about other means of transport, being more active, but provision for cyclists needs to be logical, not just a random sop to use up money!  There are already enough cycle lanes that are useless...

 

Educating people to recognise that all road users have equal right, and being in a car doesn't make you better than someone else, would be more helpful (but then I guess there's always some who will  think they are more important than everyone else).

But there also needs to be a massive push in educating cyclists too, it's always the motorist that's the big bad and the cyclist is alway made out to be virtuous and beyond reproach.

 

My job has me driving around the city most of the day and the shear number of them that think the rules and laws of road use are optional if you're pedal powered is staggering. It is a GENUINE surprise when I see one stop at a red light. I've seen them cut up HGVs & buses, go down the left side of vehicles indicating left (on road without cycle lanes).

 

In my experience of driving in Sheffield over the last 2 years the biggest danger to cyclists around Sheffield IS the cyclist. 

It's not helped by the fact the SYP are less than useless and don't bother to give anyone driving/riding in a manner that would contravene the highway code a tug and a word. 

[Guest busdriver1]

11 hours ago, Brooker11 said:

I was on it this morning at about 9:20am, the traffic wasn't too bad to be fair but not a cyclist in site. Maybe they should ask the cycling groups they've been "consulting with" where they all are, the whole thing looks a complete and utter mess.

Right, genuine question.

This wonderful cycle lane is aimed at convincing people to cycle, correct?

Given that there are existing cyclists in Sheffield who in general do so for various reasons but are currently cyclists are they the best people to ask about the siting of a new cycle lane.

 

Surely, the best approach would be to ask non cyclists where a new cycle lane that would attract them would go? Wouldn't that be more likely to attract new cyclists?

 

Alternatively if there is a map of cycle lanes try looking for gaps that need filling in the network that would be of use. (not all gaps will need filling as they may be there due to lack of demand or physical restrictions).

We also need to remember that as with all other forms of transport there can never be a perfect cycle route, after all do we have perfect road layouts, rail layouts, footpaths, bus routes etc?

 

A good well thought out cycle route that makes cycling safe and acceptable whilst not disadvantaging others could be done but as it needs thought,  accepting the views of others and wisdom we have a problem.

That problem would appear to be SCC who seem to know what we want and will implement it no matter what.

[Tony 10]

1 hour ago, Fudbeer said:

Can anyone tell me the general consensus from cyclist's do they think its a good idea?

I read an article initially that  some thought it was badly thought out and the additional queuing traffic/pollution outweighed the benefits and the focus should be on routes away from roads.If so they seem to have scored a spectacular own goal of upsetting everyone.Would it not have been best to consult with road and cycle groups on how to best use the money?

Thought the whole idea of the inner ring road to have a wide/2 lane road that takes traffic away from other routes that are less suitable.

 

 

Being a collection of individuals there's no consensus but you can have my personal opinion for nowt 

 

The background: Because of Covid-19 the Government decided to make cash available to councils to make rapid and meaningful changes to reallocate road space to active travel, in other words pedestrians and cyclists. Here is the government paper: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/2-billion-package-to-create-new-era-for-cycling-and-walking

 

The problem(s): Our road system is broken, I think we can all agree on that, yes? Building more road space just brings more vehicles and congestion which it isn't a solution, so can we agree on that too? Councils spend far too much time and money tinkering and getting nowhere because applying for government money to tinker with a bit of the road network is how they get wages for council staff, whether these schemes succeed or fail. Councils do have many good engineers but the reason we have so many useless (ie unused by cyclists) cycle lanes is because councils get paid for painting red stripes on the road, not for getting more people out of their cars, so we get lots of red paint. The reason that a pelican crossing costs many hundreds of thousands of pounds is because the government pays for it and engineers understandably like getting paid every month so they keep applying for money for new schemes to tinker with. It doesn't work though. About 10% of pedestrian deaths are actually on the pavement - the pavement for gawd's sake. People killed on the actual PAVEMENT that's not an actual part of the actual road where vehicles are actually supposed to be. Same goes for bikes, if anyone young or old wants to ride a bike on the road they should automatically feel safe doing it. Please let's agree that everyone has a right to be safe and this is more important than three extra minutes on our commute while listening to Jeremy Vine in our air-conditioned car. 

 

But cyclists... road tax, insurance, helmets, hi-viz, etc: Really? I mean, really? Three thousand people a year are killed by vehicles, some on pavements, and people get apoplectically incensed about a cyclist passing a red light when it's clear? I don't do it or condone it, but come on, get a sense of proportion instead of a sense of righteous indignation. Just get a grip if you suffer this ridiculous malaise. 

 

The opportunity: There were already lots of reasons but Covid-19 created a once in a lifetime opportunity to capitalise on the unplanned increase in travel on foot and by bike. All councils grabbed the cash. By the nature of an overnight scheme there was going to be a lot of overnight experimenting. Not all parts of all experiments will work or were expected to work.

 

The facts: The current Shalesmoor bike lanes is  temporary and created almost overnight, just like those other changes around the Town Hall. That's why they are ugly and not perfect. There is now another larger pot of Government money to make things more permanent using the experience gained in the initial experiment. All councils will apply for  this Tranche 2 funding. The permanent versions can be designed to cater for emergencies, buses, etc without any difficulty. This explains the Tranche 1 and Tranche 2 funding https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/emergency-active-travel-fund-local-transport-authority-allocations.

 

The reality: People hate change. It's just human nature and by that I mean that we REALLY hate change. Thats why so many of us are quite literally fat, selfish, uncaring SoBs. We can't help it because we are programmed that way - see this forum for further details.  We are selfish enough to demand everything for our convenience without caring much for how it affects other people. We're also very bad at thinking beyond today and tomorrow, but these new things take time to bed in and get widely used. Nobody in their right mind thinks that there is a hidden horde of cyclists desperately waiting for the day that Shalesmoor becomes safe to ride along. Anyone who expects to suddenly see loads of cyclists on Shalesmoor is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. As I said above, just get a grip.

 

What next: Build it and they will come - in time ;). The new, permanent lane change will exclude cars and lorries but allow more and more cyclists to ride safely as they give it a try and realise that it's faster, easier, cheaper and healthier than sitting in the traffic line that now has to give way to them instead of the other way around because all the other junctions have been replanned so that the controlled crossings are for cars, not bikes. Anyone expecting a horde of cyclists to descend on Shalesmoor really isn't thinking very hard at all and their opinions can be safely ignored. Our highways need MORE well designed space for bikes and pedestrians. Covid 19 can kick start that process so that it becomes the new normal because remember, Build it and they will come - in time

 

Not convinced? Think of Fargate and the Moor being pedestrianised back in the 1970's and just imagine the wails from motorists who were suddenly denied the chance to park outside Marks and Spencers. I bet that plenty were writing to the Star to say that they would never ever come into Sheffield city centre ever again. Who can imagine Fargate and The Moor not being pedestrianised now? 

 

My conclusion: The Council should stick it out, make it permanent, design the highway so that emergency vehicles can use the bike lane in extremis, and watch how active travel continues to increase over the coming weeks, months and years. Sheffielders will be healthier and our city will be a nicer place. It will need guts and that is the problem because I don't think that our politicians will have any when it comes to long term planning to make our city a better place to live in for everyone, not just the chosen few. If they have some guts, vehicle users will have to lump it while we shift to a new normal way of getting around, and I include myself in that. 

 

 

So there you go, that cost nowt for the very best post on this thread. 👌 🤐

[Weredoomed 10]

@Tony - there are so many practical, operational flaws in your argument, I have no idea where to begin. So I wont.

[Planner1 438]

1 hour ago, busdriver1 said:

Right, genuine question.

This wonderful cycle lane is aimed at convincing people to cycle, correct?

More about convincing people who have started cycling during the Covid lock-down to continue to do so as traffic levels start to rise again.

[Donny B Good 10]

Tony, What a load of pompous, (the best post on this thread?) biassed tosh! And the answer to cyclists passing traffic lights at red whilst having no insurance is that the rest of us need to "get a grip if we suffer this ridiculous malaise"? I think you need to see a psychiatrist.

Hopefully you were actually writing it tongue in cheek in which case I congratulate you for an excellent piece!

[Tony 10]

34 minutes ago, Weredoomed said:

@Tony - there are so many practical, operational flaws in your argument, I have no idea where to begin. So I wont.

Bring me solutions not problems.

[Baron99 801]

Double wardrobe to moved to a friend's house in Hillsborough. 

 

Cyclist wanted. 

[Tony 10]

Nobody, that's NOBODY is proposing that you can't use a vehicle to get around, with or without a wardrobe. It's to be hoped you can see more clearly while driving than you think. 😝