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Sheff Council - Shalesmoor Road Layout

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3 minutes ago, BoroB said:

Thought you've not driven the route this week.

 

Most of us who are commenting on the absurdity of the scheme have to actually use the stretch of road going about our daily lives and whilst I appreciate that, with planning being your profession you may feel you are better 

qualified to comment, posting the number of lecturing replies defending a scheme that you have no first hand experience of does seem unusal  and a tad condescending to me.

 

I think you should take a journey on the route Planner 1 and then give us some feedback after experiencing the joys of what is now a trip through Shalemoor since the changes.

 

It shouldn't take you long, have a drive down from Brook Hill roundabout, through Shalesmoor to the Parkway and then back again and then please let us know how the journey went. 

 

Before judging  at least try the experience.

 

To be fair, if Planner1 does sample the route, he should also do it on a cycle to get a real perspective.

 

In fact, to all the motorists slating this scheme, to be fair I think you also do it on a cycle, and then find a similar road during rush hour and compare how it feels when you're using the more traditional 'cycle paths' in the form of a narrow strip of paint full of grit at the edge of a busy road being passed by vans at a distance of 6 inches. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

To be fair, if Planner1 does sample the route, he should also do it on a cycle to get a real perspective.

 

In fact, to all the motorists slating this scheme, to be fair I think you also do it on a cycle, and then find a similar road during rush hour and compare how it feels when you're using the more traditional 'cycle paths' in the form of a narrow strip of paint full of grit at the edge of a busy road being passed by vans at a distance of 6 inches. 

 

 

You are determined to avoid the subject in question.

Its about the suitability of using this stretch of road for this experiment.

Its a major arterial road which is never going to be used by commuting or leisure cyclists in any number.

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6 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Try addressing the subject.

As a cyclist is the Shalesmoor scheme proportionately beneficial to commuting cyclists.

Is it a route that cyclists would use for commuting or leisure as opposed to the vehicles who must use it.

You'd have to define what you in particular mean by "proportionately beneficial to commuting cyclists". And remind me why the focus on commuting cycles?

 

I use the route a lot when cycling, although I steadfastly avoided the actual road as it is not safe for cyclists [it is now, of course, as they have a dedicated car-free path].

 

This is also why you're not seeing many cyclists there at the moment- they will have been on it and decided that being passed by fast moving articulated lorries at 6 inch distance is not safe and found routes that aviod it.

 

I use it a lot [when I cycle, which was a lot during the lockdown, less now as Sheffield is not a pleasant or safe place to cycle due to the car congestion] it connects town to the Penistone road [off road] cycle path which links to the excellent [off road] cycle path to Oughtibridge and has lots of options for scenic routes and options for avoiding or seeking out good steep hills.

 

As a direct result of having access to a proper cycle path with a guarantee that I will not be passed at 6" by a lethal metal box, or rammed by a driver pre-occupied with their illegal use of a phone, I will certainly be doing more cycling.

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There’s no arguing with you if you wish to create snarled up traffic so that you can you can enjoy a leisure ride .

Just beware of the emergency vehicles bearing down on you as they try to get through.

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2 minutes ago, RJRB said:

You are determined to avoid the subject in question.

Its about the suitability of using this stretch of road for this experiment.

Its a major arterial road which is never going to be used by commuting or leisure cyclists in any number.

I'm prioritising the things I consider really important- getting more cycles on the roads, getting a lot less cars/vans/lorries, saving the planets ecology, helping public health, trying to prevent the next generations of children growing up in a dying environment etc.

 

I appreciate what you're saying here "which is never going to be used by commuting or leisure cyclists in any number." however, I've addressed it several times. That road is not safe for cyclists, and it's not perceived as safe for cyclists, and that, IMO, accounts for there not being many cyclists using it. 

 

IMO, it is a fantastic route for cyclists now it has a proper, car free path.

 

Is this the best road for this path/experiment? I don't know- I suspect that whichever road had been chosen we'd have a similar amount of motor drivers up in arms for different reasons.

 

Why don't you suggest some options where you think a dedicated car-free cycle path could have been put?

 

 

1 minute ago, RJRB said:

There’s no arguing with you if you wish to create snarled up traffic so that you can you can enjoy a leisure ride .

Just beware of the emergency vehicles bearing down on you as they try to get through.

That area has had snarled up traffic as long as I can remember, caused entirely by really excessive numbers of cars on the roads. As previously mentioned, making roads inconvenient for motor vehicles seems to be the only scientifically known way to cut vehicle numbers- I posted the links earlier [induced demand and car diet].

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6 minutes ago, RJRB said:

There’s no arguing with you if you wish to create snarled up traffic so that you can you can enjoy a leisure ride .

Just beware of the emergency vehicles bearing down on you as they try to get through.

That is a strawman argument though RJRB. The purpose of the journey is irrelevant.

 

No one has more special entitlement to use the highway than another. You or I are just people trying to get around for our own personally valid reasons whether we are on foot, on a bike or in a 500hp vehicle. None of us is special enough to have special treatment beyond that which makes us safe.

Edited by Tony

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4 minutes ago, Tony said:

That is a strawman argument though RJRB. The purpose of the journey is irrelevant.

 

No one has more special entitlement to use the highway than another. You or I are just people trying to get around for our own personally valid reasons whether we are on foot, on a bike or in a 500hp vehicle. None of us is special enough to have special treatment beyond that which makes us safe.

People on a leisure ride can choose to avoid that particular stretch, people who need to get to work cannot.

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5 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

 

Why don't you suggest some options where you think a dedicated car-free cycle path could have been put?

 

How about any of the smaller roads through Kelham island? Half of them have just been blocked off to cars, so they'd be ideal.


The whole point of a ring road is to encourage cars to use it and to keep them off smaller side roads and out of the city centre. By doing this, everyone who has to drive (and there are a lot of us who simply have no choice but to drive) is being pushed to drive alternative routes, down side streets, through the city centre, etc. This is specifically stopping traffic from going where we ideally want traffic to go. 

 

It's currently 13.45 on a Thursday with a large number of people still not working or travelling, and the whole area is dark red on google maps traffic view. This is going to get worse and worse. 

 

And for those people who are giving Amsterdam as an example, Amsterdam still has a substantial ring road. They haven't just closed the whole city off you know, only a few streets in the city centre. Shalesmoor is not the city centre.

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1 minute ago, Tony said:

That is a strawman argument though RJRB. The purpose of the journey is irrelevant.

 

No one has more special entitlement to use the highway than another. You or I are just people trying to get around for our own personally valid reasons whether we are on foot, on a bike or in a 500hp vehicle. None of us is special enough to have special treatment beyond that which makes us safe.

Back to basics.

This is an arterial road built to carry necessary traffic around the city.

Strawman arguments are those introducing save the planet and similar subjects.

I owned a bike for years,as did my two children.

We had no problem in finding good routes to enjoy and get exercise.

So now commuting by bike is a popular call for a vociferous,very few,given added momentum by the lockdown period and public transport fears.

 

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24 minutes ago, Scarrott said:

How about any of the smaller roads through Kelham island? Half of them have just been blocked off to cars, so they'd be ideal.

 

 

 

That wouldn't help with congestion according to the established science [induced demand].

 

20 minutes ago, RJRB said:

 

Strawman arguments are those introducing save the planet and similar subjects.

 

 

How is averting ecological collapse caused [in large part] by car congestion, a strawman in a thread addressing congestion and the cycling solution to polution?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

That wouldn't help with congestion according to the established science [induced demand].

 

How is averting ecological collapse caused [in large part] by car congestion, a strawman in a thread addressing congestion and the cycling solution to polution?

 

 

Closing one lane of a main arterial road will not save the planet. Given the amount of standing traffic it could make it worse.

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2 hours ago, Tony said:

The statistics.

https://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search

 

 

 

Interesting site.  So according to this site the number of pedal cycle incidents on Shalesmoor Road involving the injury of a cyclist since 2017 is 4 of which 1 was severe.

 

How much did this fiasco cost??

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