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Re Writing Of History

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1 minute ago, Halibut said:

Churchill managed both very successfully wouldn't you say? 

Wrong thats what you say.

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1 minute ago, Rockers rule said:

There can't be many of us who weren't in the Boy Scouts, Boys Brigade etc 

Except that's the thing isn't it?  There are tens of millions of us who weren't in the Boy Scouts or the Boys Brigade - it's not all about white men of a certain age anymore! 

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I agree with Halibut that the thread title is not quite correct.

Historical fact cannot be re written,apart from in some totalitarian countries.

A reappraisal of historical attitudes and events is nearer the mark and as Loob commented this is a constant process from generation to generation.

Its easy to pick out the extreme bad and the extreme good and statues commemorating despots and dictators have been pulled down around the world.

However ,as is frequently quoted, things were different then and the best that we can do is to learn as we go along.

This seems to be a time when this process has been accelerated.

 

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1 minute ago, PRESLEY said:

Wrong thats what you say.

These are his own words - "I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."

 

How else could you possibly describe these views as not racist? It's a textbook definition of racism.

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3 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Except that's the thing isn't it?  There are tens of millions of us who weren't in the Boy Scouts or the Boys Brigade - it's not all about white men of a certain age anymore! 

But we were all brought up with respect being an important part of that upbringing.

 

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1 hour ago, Halibut said:

I'm sure Churchill was well aware of that when he wrote "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes,".

Try saying that when your people have been enslaved and abused for hundreds of years. 

You can't understand why people apologise for things they've said and done in the past - really? 

You said it yourself, hundreds of years ago, not now, my own ancestors were treated exactly the same, they were murdered, starved and denied but I don’t expect the things the “ Black Lives Matter” people are demanding.

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Fun Fact: Karl Marx was a massive racist.

 

Will the protesters smash up his memorial in London too?

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Just now, lazarus said:

You said it yourself, hundreds of years ago, not now, my own ancestors were treated exactly the same, they were murdered, starved and denied but I don’t expect the things the “ Black Lives Matter” people are demanding.

Who were your ancestors? If 'your people' were being killed by police officers on a regular basis, and systematically discriminated against on a massive scale, would you not be inclined to protest?

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2 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Churchill managed both very successfully wouldn't you say? 

The problem here is that the great majority of people and especially leaders had a very different view of ethnic origin that we do today.

I know one of my grandparents had a very old fashioned and fairly offensive viewpoint in the 1970s and 80s which became far less bad before they died in the 1990s

 

A few years ago in Hungary, I visited the communist statue park. This was an out of town museum in the open, out of town full of communist era statues that used to be in prominent places in the region. There was information and pictures explaining what they meant to the people at the time and where they stood. Some were plain and others elaborate and vast. It was informative and enjoyable. There were also souvenirs and a visitor centre.

 

Instead of destroying or storing old statues out of view, we should consider this kind of thing, making a feature out of them and giving students and interested people a place to see and study them.

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Posted (edited)

Erasing the past by banning films, books, hiding art and removing status does as much to save white people from embarrassment as it does to remove the offence from black people.

Edited by the_bloke

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1 hour ago, lazarus said:

When are we going to start burning books? Leave the past alone, it’s history, I can’t understand why people are apologising for things they’ve said and done in the past, I.e, Little Britain, black people white up on African tv shows, no demonstrating there.

I agree.   What has happened in Britain over the last few weeks is absolute madness given that we are still in a state of emergency due to the coronavirus.  I  felt ashamed to British when I saw the actions of the lawless mob who toppled the statue in Bristol on Sunday. It reminded me and many others when we saw pictures of statues of Saddam Hussein being toppled. The Iraqi people had justification for taking the law into their own hands after personally suffering as a consequence of the ruthless dictator Saddam Hussein. We have elections to decide who to rule us.   The lawless mob who toppled the statue in Bristol most likely buy goods, clothing and footwear from China where today in this time in history slave labour or Prison forced labour is used to manufacture goods and clothing that is exported to Britain and distributed to the towns and cities including Bristol for their residents to buy.

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34 minutes ago, Branyy said:

There certainly (and unfortunately) are people that would welcome raising a statue of Hitler. So I'm asking again - where to draw the line? And who's going to decide?

I'm very surprised to see Harold Wilson on the list

 

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/fury-over-claim-harold-wilson-18386693

 

Dig deep enough and you can probably find fault with just about anything or anyone.

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