Re Writing Of History

[Halibut 12]

13 minutes ago, muddycoffee said:

The problem here is that the great majority of people and especially leaders had a very different view of ethnic origin that we do today.

I know one of my grandparents had a very old fashioned and fairly offensive viewpoint in the 1970s and 80s which became far less bad before they died in the 1990s

 

A few years ago in Hungary, I visited the communist statue park. This was an out of town museum in the open, out of town full of communist era statues that used to be in prominent places in the region. There was information and pictures explaining what they meant to the people at the time and where they stood. Some were plain and others elaborate and vast. It was informative and enjoyable. There were also souvenirs and a visitor centre.

 

Instead of destroying or storing old statues out of view, we should consider this kind of thing, making a feature out of them and giving students and interested people a place to see and study them.

I think that's a grand idea.

[Pettytom 1]

19 minutes ago, Rockers rule said:

But we were all brought up with respect being an important part of that upbringing.

 

Maybe you should use your respectful upbringing to consider the effect that glorifying slave traders has on many UK citizens.

 

If you were truly brought up to be respectful, you would listen carefully to their views.

 

Someone else asked about where to draw the line. That’s difficult, but I’d say that bona fide slave traders were definitely on the wrong side of it. Where monarchs, prime ministers  and explorers sit is a little more tricky.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Pettytom

[alchresearch 214]

Going back to Baden Powell. Its interesting to see David Lammy speaking highly of the organisation:

 

Quote

In the film, Hislop interviews David Lammy, the Culture Minister who became a Cub Scout at seven. Lammy said the experience had a positive effect on him and others: 'I remember a particular week in which the whole purpose was to knock on people's doors to say can we wash your car, in the Cub uniform. I suspect Baden-Powell had a Gordon Brown sense of prudence and hard work and of thrift and of duty.'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/apr/22/davidsmith.theobserver

[altus 540]

1 hour ago, PRESLEY said:

We should see statues of bad people every day to inspire us all not to do the same as they did,  so history doesn't repeat its self,  we see documentries of Hitler the purpose being to learn how terrible the Monster he  was,   if we dont see we dont learn and prevent this ever happening again. 

All those documentaries on Hitler provide context by detailing the bad things he did. The statue to Colston described him as "virtuous and wise" and didn't describe the bad things he did. That's common to almost all other statues - they are erected to celebrate people not provide a critique of their actions. Without context, statues can't inspire anyone to not do what they did.

[Pettytom 1]

3 minutes ago, Halibut said:

I think that's a grand idea.

Liverpool have done a similar thing with their inescapable links to the slave trade. It is very impressive 

[L00b 441]

29 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

Fun fact; the Guardian supported slavery and opposed the Emancipation Act in the USA at the time, and called Lincoln abhorrent when reporting his death.

It is a fun fact.

 

So, aside from the fact that Guardian clearly changed its tune about that a good while back...where are the statues, street names and/or memorials to the Guardian?

 

And does the duration and extent of its championning antiracism/antislavery/etc offset its earlier slavery support sufficiently, to warrant leaving them alone now?

[Branyy 10]

6 minutes ago, altus said:

All those documentaries on Hitler provide context by detailing the bad things he did. The statue to Colston described him as "virtuous and wise" and didn't describe the bad things he did. That's common to almost all other statues - they are erected to celebrate people not provide a critique of their actions. Without context, statues can't inspire anyone to not do what they did.

I think change of the plaque to more appropriate would have done better job.

[altus 540]

1 minute ago, Branyy said:

I think change of the plaque to more appropriate would have done better job.

There's rarely enough space on a plaque to provide context. If you put "This is Edward Colston. He was a slave trader" it looks like the statue has been erected to celebrate the fact he was a slave trader.

 

The park for old statues with information boards idea is a better one.

[Branyy 10]

2 minutes ago, altus said:

There's rarely enough space on a plaque to provide context. If you put "This is Edward Colston. He was a slave trader" it looks like the statue has been erected to celebrate the fact he was a slave trader.

 

The park for old statues with information boards idea is a better one.

I agree.

[RollingJ 2,019]

3 minutes ago, altus said:

There's rarely enough space on a plaque to provide context. If you put "This is Edward Colston. He was a slave trader" it looks like the statue has been erected to celebrate the fact he was a slave trader.

 

The park for old statues with information boards idea is a better one.

Or, just leave them as they are - there is an easily accessible source of information for those who wish to know more about a statue (or many other things) these days - it's called the internet.

[Vaati 11]

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[Rockers rule 673]

19 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

Maybe you should use your respectful upbringing to consider the effect that glorifying slave traders has on many UK citizens.

 

 

I'm sorry Pettytom you must have read my post wrong.

I did exactly say that we should infact teach our children the rights and wrongs of history and certainly didn't say anything about glorifying slave traders.

Rocker.