If You Aren't Anti-Fascist. ?

[Rockers rule 673]

28 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

Mark 9:40.

same thing - Fasces - Collective power

Edited June 4, 2020 by Rockers rule
Add links by mistake?

[Litotes 63]

1 hour ago, Halibut said:

 

Clever... by quoting your own response, you don't allow people to quote your response...

 

Totalitarianism in control of responses...

 

Hmmm, what ideology does that smack of when you want to control the thoughts of others...????

Edited June 4, 2020 by Litotes
spellink

[Earthlyone 0]

All in all I think Halibut has made a bit of a fool of himself  with this thread.

[Litotes 63]

3 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

Sorry, I don't understand this response.  Mark 9:40 is the "he who is not against us is with us" quote, which, if generalizable, implies that if you are not anti-fascist then you are pro-fascist.

And that if you don't believe in my beliefs then you are against me...

 

Which in itself is a totalitarian point of view, and thus fascist...

[Guest makapaka]

The op is excellent at this / there’s a reason they’re named after a fish.

 

They’ve taken criticism of a particular group of anti fascists as advocation of fascism.

 

being “anti” something generally implies direct opposition to - and not just being against something.

 

so I am against fascism but I don’t directly demonstrate against it - I’m not taking direct action to counter it like others are.

 

i just don’t agree with it, dislike it and am therefore not a fascist. As I would imagine most people arent.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by makapaka

[Baron99 801]

6 minutes ago, makapaka said:

The op is excellent at this / there’s a reason they’re named after a fish.

 

They’ve taken criticism of a particular group of anti fascists as advocation of fascism.

 

being “anti” something generally implies direct opposition to - and not just being against something.

 

so I am against fascism but I don’t directly demonstrate against it - I’m not taking direct action to counter it like others are.

 

i just don’t agree with it, dislike it and am therefore not a fascist. As I would imagine most people arent.

 

 

Your last sentence is a very broad, sweeping statement, without any concrete evidence to back it up? 

 

It's not as though people state such details on the census & we can tally the results up. 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Baron99

[Rockers rule 673]

2 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

Sorry, I don't understand this response.  Mark 9:40 is the "he who is not against us is with us" quote, which, if generalizable, implies that if you are not anti-fascist then you are pro-fascist.

 A fasces from which the name Fascist is derived is exactly that a collective,  being they sticks or people.

 

[Rockers rule 673]

2 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

The fasces was a bundle of sticks with an executioner's axe, symbolizing the authority of the Roman state, particularly with regard to corporal and capital punishment.  Not really a symbol of any kind of collectivism.

 

Either way, I still don't see how this relates to Mark 9:40.

 

3 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

The fasces was a bundle of sticks with an executioner's axe, symbolizing the authority of the Roman state, particularly with regard to corporal and capital punishment.  Not really a symbol of any kind of collectivism.

 

Either way, I still don't see how this relates to Mark 9:40.

O Come on Captain.

A single stick is easily broken.

Bunched together they are one.

if that doesn't purport to be collective I'm not sure what does.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Waldo 96]

I really don't like the idea of people being bullied or coerced in to identification with any particular ideology, set of beliefs, group, or whatever. I much prefer people to believe whatever it is they believe; to be true and genuine according to their own natures. If that means they're going to be a bad apple, so be it, and in any case, who am I to judge what makes an apple good or bad? In fact, I would think that no apple is entirely good or bad; but is a multifaceted being, a product of it's lived experience.

[Rockers rule 673]

12 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

Maybe, but that's not what the fasces represented.

 

It's true that twentieth century fascism was a kind of collective endeavour, but then again so is the Women's Institute.  Collective endeavours are not bad per se, it's what they're directed towards that is the issue.

 

[And it still doesn't explain the connection to the bible quote, apart maybe from the fact that early Christianity was also a collective endeavour - is that the point you were making?]

Good Morning Captain (Sorry I nearly broke into a Cramps song there)

I'll try to explain even if we ignore you were the one that highlighted part of my post and replied with the quote from the Bible in #37 and went on to elaborate on the "he who is not against us" with your assertion this implies 'if you are Not anti Fascist you are then pro Fascist' & further reason the Biblical quote in #45 means "anyone who is not working against us implicitly supporting us'.

Is this not exactly the same as Fascism? if you don't stand against us you are taken under the Umbrella of that movement wether that be Christian, Communism, Fascism or any other ism?

Stating in#47 that the Fasces is not a symbol of Collectivism is so far from the truth and is Exactly the reason first the Roman Empire and later Mussolini adopted the Fasces.

Your ability to quote Bible passages is commendable but to simply state 'the Fasces was a bunch of sticks with an executioners axe, symbolising the authority of the Roman State particularly with regard to Corporal & Capital punishment & not grasp the whole reason the Fasces was chosen to represent the Collectivism of the state in the first place is puzzling.

Surely you don't think one morning some one said "that's a pretty bunch of sticks we'll use it as a National symbol? No - as with any symbol it has to have an original reason as per the explanation in #48 regarding the single stick / bunched together analogy this is not my analogy this is a well known analogy and often used in far right indoctrinations.

Further examples of the origins of symbols all clearly have some original meaning take our very own 'Sheaf' as in 'Sheaf Field' & just as the Russians didn't just use the Hammer & Sickle because the yellowness contrasted nicely with the Red of the flag. It represented the people of both Town & Country working as one.

Hope that clears things up for yer. 

 

 keep safe.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Rockers rule
wrong word used

[RootsBooster 24]

On 03/06/2020 at 18:30, Halibut said:

The witless incumbent at the White House has said he wants 'antifa' - the umbrella  term given to a number of groups who oppose fascism - to be designated as a terrorist organisation.

Which, as you might expect, got me thinking.

 

If you aren't anti-fascist...are you a lover of fascism? If so, what is it that you think laudable about fascism? The fashion? The jackboots? The totalitarianism? Please share your thoughts.

 

 

From a purely technical point of view, regardless of your movement's goals or ideals, if you use tactics that fall into criteria for terrorism then you may become listed as terrorists.

Antifa, being of the extreme far left, are known to use violence and intimidation, this may (or may not) qualify as terrorism.

 

As for your question,  disapproving or disagreeing with Antifa's methods does not mean that one is not anti fascist. 

I think it's also worth noting that regardless of how despicable fascist views may be, it is not a crime to hold those views.  The modern extreme far left are only a step behind the extreme far right (in the USA, at least).

 

Also, Trump is a prick

[tinfoilhat 11]

10 hours ago, Waldo said:

I really don't like the idea of people being bullied or coerced in to identification with any particular ideology, set of beliefs, group, or whatever. I much prefer people to believe whatever it is they believe; to be true and genuine according to their own natures. If that means they're going to be a bad apple, so be it, and in any case, who am I to judge what makes an apple good or bad? In fact, I would think that no apple is entirely good or bad; but is a multifaceted being, a product of it's lived experience.

A bad Apple? So if I beat up a relative of yours for no reason you wouldn't see fit to judge me as a  bad Apple? Was Hitler a bad Apple? Stalin?