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14 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

For those interested? 

 

Italian death rate approximately 10%.  8,200 deaths from COVID-19 from  80,500 confirmed COVID-19 cases. 

 

 

As stated that "10% death rate" is a completely meaningless statistic. Unless every single person who has had this virus has been tested and logged it is an irrelevant stat :

 

The all important word there being "confirmed".

Where are you getting the Italian death rate at 10% ?

If it's simply dividing "confirmed cases" by deaths that's a totally meaningless statistic because it doesn't count the far larger number of people who have had the virus but haven't been tested

As I have already posted, the official Govt advice if you or anyone in your family has this virus is NOT to tell them, much less be tested. Obviously if the patient's symptoms become critical they'd then go into hospital, but, the VAST majority of those who have no symptoms / mild  symptoms / not critical symptoms will never show up in the statistics.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

As stated that "10% death rate" is a completely meaningless statistic. Unless every single person who has had this virus has been tested and logged it is an irrelevant stat :

 

The all important word there being "confirmed".

Where are you getting the Italian death rate at 10% ?

If it's simply dividing "confirmed cases" by deaths that's a totally meaningless statistic because it doesn't count the far larger number of people who have had the virus but haven't been tested

As I have already posted, the official Govt advice if you or anyone in your family has this virus is NOT to tell them, much less be tested. Obviously if the patient's symptoms become critical they'd then go into hospital, but, the VAST majority of those who have no symptoms / mild  symptoms / not critical symptoms will never show up in the statistics.

Do you know? 

 

I'm sure the Italians would  be chuffed at this moment in time, that we can give so much time & energy over to arguing over semantics & being pedantic. 

Edited by Baron99

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Anna B said:

I'm sorry, but the clapping at 8 o' clock really annoyed me. We can stand and clap all we want, but what our health professionals really need isn't applause, it's  proper Personal Protection Equipment, and they've been woefully let down not to have it. But of course the papers and media will be full of the clapping tomorrow, and the serious problem will be ignored. You can trust Boris to know how to sidestep bad publicity.

In spite of plenty of warning, this government is making  our dedicated health workers go into battle without armour, and that's a scandal. The government should be ashamed.

Agreed. My wife is an NHS worker, my brother in law is a frontline doctor at Liverpool hospital, and my sister is a nurse. They are all terrified right now. PETRIFIED. They have been severely let down by this government, over the last ten years, and since the virus became apparent in January. While seeing the nation clapping like that may have been nice for a matter of seconds, in the grand scale of things it means nothing. They are going to see thousands of patients die, they are going to be traumatised, and their lives are at risk. 

 

The MSM are in full blown propoganda mode right now under instruction from the govnt. - keep everyone up beat, build a sense of togetherness, keep everyone scared but do not let panic and fear set in. This govnt is playing the country like a fiddle. 

 

And to the many people who say that now is not the time to criticise the government, I say this. Now is exactly the time to criticise them. If there was ever a time to do it, then it is now. Just like when they started dropping bombs in Iraq. Because lives are bing lost due to their incompetence, bad planning and neglect.   

Edited by OneSon

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13 minutes ago, Mister Gee said:

Can’t they just plant another magic money tree or two?

Would you have preferred the Conservative  Government not do have introduced the emergency measures they have?

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22 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

Obviously this is irrelevant now. There will be big tax rises now to pay for all this, though I have to say, it's also when the pension "Triple Lock" should be abolished. Pensions should be linked to average earnings only * now. Arguably the Triple Lock" has never been justified (apart from to garner votes....) but now more than ever, when the young will be paying the price for all this (a health problem focussed disproportionally on the old) the "Triple Lock" should be history.

 

* In fact, if average earnings go down, so should the pension.

Obviously this crisis has to be paid for..

Could the government introduce an emergency Coronavirus tax measure, everyone earning above the national average paying more.

Pensioners and the low paid not being penalised.. when the books are balanced, abolish it. Or will the government simply use it as an excuse to screw the lot of us.

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28 minutes ago, Mister Gee said:

Can’t they just plant another magic money tree or two?

So let me get this right? 

 

So you're actually complaining & begrudging the fact that those, 'nasty, uncaring' Tories are using tax payers money, to help out the country's workforce in these extraordinary times, in order to stop the very people you probably rely on, from going under, being able to look after their families & to be able to keep their heads above water in the short term?

 

The very same tax money that has been previously collected from the very same workforce? 

 

So you'd rather see businesses fold & the unemployment figures go through the roof & any reserves used to pay for unemployment benefit? 

 

Have I got it right?  

 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Mister Gee said:

Can’t they just plant another magic money tree or two?

It's not a magic money tree. It's borrowing. Massive amounts of borrowing, which will have long term economic consequences. But would you rather they didn't? 

Edited by Robin-H

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Would you have preferred the Conservative  Government not do have introduced the emergency measures they have?

 

16 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

So let me get this right? 

 

So you're actually complaining & begrudging the fact that those, 'nasty, uncaring' Tories are using tax payers money, to help out the country's workforce in these extraordinary times, in order to stop the very people you probably rely on, from going under, being able to look after their families & to be able to keep their heads above water in the short term?

 

The very same tax money that has been previously collected from the very same workforce? 

 

So you'd rather see businesses fold & the unemployment figures go through the roof & any reserves used to pay for unemployment benefit? 

 

Have I got it right?  

 

You’re both wrong I’m afraid. I think they’re doing the right thing.

Edited by Mister Gee

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What are the chances? All those ‘technology lessons’ in that flat with the pole dancing pole in, and still the urgent email from the EU about buying cheap ventilators ends up in Boris Johnson’s spam folder.

I bet its chaos in number ten, all those advisors and being led by a donkey.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-boris-johnson-ventilator-eu-scheme-nhs-a9429196.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1585292935

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12 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

It's not a magic money tree. It's borrowing. Massive amounts of borrowing, which will have long term economic consequences. But would you rather they didn't? 

I beg your pardon Robin but I’d forgotten it’s borrowing. It’s Labour who have the magic money tree.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, West 77 said:

Would you have preferred the Conservative  Government not do have introduced the emergency measures they have?

It'd have been nice of them to introduce stepped measures from January onwards, when they already knew full well about Covid-19 from the Chinese PM.

 

Rather than sit on their thumb until a week ago  or so, and then try to spin their incompetence  with ever bigger lies.

 

The latest, that the EU invite to partake in pooled ventilator procuring went into Johnson's spam  folder. 2 days after Hancock clearly and unambiguously acknowledged that offer on Newsnight, and in the face of an earlier, pretty clear government message that, until last night and the involvement of Johnson's spam folder, the UK's refusal to partake was policy/deliberate.

 

You should see the international press today.

Edited by L00b

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3 hours ago, Albert the Cat said:

Well, the Oxford study is effectively getting trashed in the FT today. 

 

It makes the point where wide spread testing has been adopted, there is NO incidence of asymptomatic carriers on the scale the Oxford study claims. NONE whatsoever. 

Well, nobody is 'trashing' it.  There's quite correctly plenty of criticism of it, especially here but also here, but the one thing the Oxford group, its critics and I all agree on is that a large scale, randomised, serological survey is the only way of knowing for sure how many people have been infected, which is a piece of information that is crucial to the management of the outbreak.  And hopefully it will soon be feasible, if the new antibody tests prove reliable.

 

[For avoidance of doubt, I'm not taking the Oxford report as gospel, or even particularly defending it except as a decent and thought-provoking piece of work.]

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