George Floyd- Killed By Police

[altus 540]

13 minutes ago, drolnhoj said:

My concern is getting rid of all the statues and the road names and the building names is just sweeping it under the carpet. People need to remember the bad things to learn for the future. Should auschwitz be erased from history? In my opinion no! In my opinion we need to learn so that it can't happen again. 

People need to remember rape and murder is bad but nobody is suggesting putting up a statue of Peter Sutcliffe and naming a few street after him to help people learn about what he did.

 

The plaque on the Colston statue's plinth reads "ERECTED BY CITIZENS OF BRISTOL AS A MEMORIAL OF ONE OF THE MOST VIRTUOUS AND WISE SONS OF THEIR CITY. AD 1895". That can be in no way said to educate anyone about his involvement with the slave trade.

Edited June 9, 2020 by altus

[Michael_W 11]

9 minutes ago, drolnhoj said:

My concern is getting rid of all the statues and the road names and the building names is just sweeping it under the carpet. People need to remember the bad things to learn for the future. Should auschwitz be erased from history? In my opinion no! In my opinion we need to learn so that it can't happen again. 

The removal of statues and renaming streets will do nothing to improve the lives of Black people, it's political posturing and virtue signalling nothing more, what Black people need to empower them, in the long term, is a decent standard of education and better job prospects, the past is history that cannot be changed, good or bad, trying to gloss it over will achieve little or nothing other than annoy those who don't agree with doing so.

As has been mentioned in an earlier post, the coming months are going to be quite testing for many, higher numbers of unemployment could potentially give rise to more divisive political attitudes, they usually do, so while demolishing statues may appease those who think they are part of the problem, in the grand scheme of things they are quite irrelevant IMHO !

[drolnhoj 15]

1 minute ago, Michael_W said:

The removal of statues and renaming streets will do nothing to improve the lives of Black people, it's political posturing and virtue signalling nothing more, what Black people need to empower them, in the long term, is a decent standard of education and better job prospects, the past is history that cannot be changed, good or bad, trying to gloss it over will achieve little or nothing other than annoy those who don't agree with doing so.

As has been mentioned in an earlier post, the coming months are going to be quite testing for many, higher numbers of unemployment could potentially give rise to more divisive political attitudes, they usually do, so while demolishing statues may appease those who think they are part of the problem, in the grand scheme of things they are quite irrelevant IMHO !

Thanks, I fully agree.

7 minutes ago, altus said:

People need to remember rape and murder is bad but nobody is suggesting putting up a statue of Peter Sutcliffe and naming a few street after him to help people learn about what he did.

 

The plaque on the Colston statue's plinth reads "ERECTED BY CITIZENS OF BRISTOL AS A MEMORIAL OF ONE OF THE MOST VIRTUOUS AND WISE SONS OF THEIR CITY. AD 1895". That can be in no way said to educate anyone about his involvement with the slave trade.

Ridiculous comment. 

[The Joker 10]

10 minutes ago, despritdan said:

The problem with mob rule is that they'll never be satisfied. Once our weak establishment has capitulated to their demands to have 60 statues removed, they'll be demanding that every statue of a white person be removed and replaced with statues of BAME people, then they'll want every street and building named after a white person to be renamed after a BAME person, then every footballer in this country must be black, every TV and radio presenter, every drama must only feature BAME actors, every MP must be black, every mayor and councillor in the country must be black, every white policeman who sees a black person must kneel down and bow to them, then every white person must give all their money to BAME people and finally, white people must be enslaved by black owners so they appreciate what their ancestors had to put up with.

Yes, it's good thing we have brave white Police officers who can kill nasty black people with impunity, isn't it!

 

 

[altus 540]

7 minutes ago, drolnhoj said:

Ridiculous comment. 

Explain why you think it's ridiculous.

[Litotes 63]

25 minutes ago, altus said:

People need to remember rape and murder is bad but nobody is suggesting putting up a statue of Peter Sutcliffe and naming a few street after him to help people learn about what he did.

 

The plaque on the Colston statue's plinth reads "ERECTED BY CITIZENS OF BRISTOL AS A MEMORIAL OF ONE OF THE MOST VIRTUOUS AND WISE SONS OF THEIR CITY. AD 1895". That can be in no way said to educate anyone about his involvement with the slave trade.

So the plaque needed changing... as times have changed.

What he did when he did it was accepted - these days it isn't.

What Peter Sutcliffe did, when he did it, was illegal - there is a huge difference between the 2 situations and this spurious argument is irrelevant.

[drolnhoj 15]

6 minutes ago, altus said:

Explain why you think it's ridiculous.

Why would anybody erect statues to convicted criminals? The statues that people are talking about were erected at a a time that people were ignorant to what happened. It doesn't mean the statues are relevant today, but maybe they should be relocated to a place that says this was our horrible racist past, let's make sure it doesn't happen again. I said a couple of times "in my opinion", but you chose to ignore that. 

[altus 540]

5 minutes ago, Litotes said:

So the plaque needed changing... as times have changed.

What he did when he did it was accepted - these days it isn't.

What Peter Sutcliffe did, when he did it, was illegal - there is a huge difference between the 2 situations and this spurious argument is irrelevant.

The post was to highlight the absurdity of the "we need the statue to remember" argument.

[drolnhoj 15]

6 minutes ago, Litotes said:

So the plaque needed changing... as times have changed.

What he did when he did it was accepted - these days it isn't.

What Peter Sutcliffe did, when he did it, was illegal - there is a huge difference between the 2 situations and this spurious argument is irrelevant.

Thanks. You have probably summed it up better than I did. 👍

[altus 540]

4 minutes ago, drolnhoj said:

Why would anybody erect statues to convicted criminals? The statues that people are talking about were erected at a a time that people were ignorant to what happened.

The statue of Colston (who died in 1721) was erected in 1895. Slavery was abolished throughout the whole of the British Empire in 1833. The people who erected the statue new exactly what he'd done.

 

It doesn't mean the statues are relevant today, but maybe they should be relocated to a place that says this was our horrible racist past, let's make sure it doesn't happen again.

I think most people would agree with that. People have been objecting to the statue being moved at all.

 

I said a couple of times "in my opinion", but you chose to ignore that.

An oversight on  my part for which I apologise.

[drolnhoj 15]

1 minute ago, altus said:

The statue of Colston (who died in 1721) was erected in 1895. Slavery was abolished throughout the whole of the British Empire in 1833. The people who erected the statue new exactly what he'd done.

 

 

 

I think most people would agree with that. People have been objecting to the statue being moved at all.

 

 

An oversight on  my part for which I apologise.

So we are probably on the same page. 👍

[kidley 48]

i can remember when i was a little boy in fitzalan square, asking my mom who is that statue, when she told me i have remembered, thats what statues are for. being remembered.