George Floyd- Killed By Police

[Arnold_Lane 0]

8 minutes ago, Branyy said:

I don't know, I don't have the absolute numbers. If you show me some a source, I'll have a look and use exact numbers for these too.

I don’t know the figure either.  You said that black people commit disproportionately more violent crime so it’s not surprising that a disproportionate number of black people die in custody.

 

I was saying that’s not the correct way to interpret the figures.  The correct way is to work out if the proportions of deaths in custody (or due to lethal force) correlate to the arrest rate.

 

But, since Floyd wasn’t being arrested for a violent crime I’m not sure why you’d introduce such a limitation in your evidence.

[lazarus 68]

1 hour ago, Halibut said:

They did - and there were plenty of people making a noise about it; the term black lives matter hadn't been coined yet then.

No you can't change history, but you choose how you look at it and who you choose to celebrate.

Seems people forget that the Africans and Arabs were responsible for capturing Africans tribesmen and selling them,  was that ok as nothing is said about that.

[altus 540]

1 hour ago, lazarus said:

Seems people forget that the Africans and Arabs were responsible for capturing Africans tribesmen and selling them,  was that ok as nothing is said about that.

Ooh, some whataboutism. That always makes for a convincing argument.

 

No, Africans and Arabs capturing slaves wasn't OK and people don't forget about it. European nations' involvement in the salve trade massively increased the demand for slaves and the number of people captured and sold. Criticism of the slave trade is criticism of all the people involved in it.

[lazarus 68]

7 minutes ago, altus said:

Ooh, some whataboutism. That always makes for a convincing argument.

 

No, Africans and Arabs capturing slaves wasn't OK and people don't forget about it. European nations' involvement in the salve trade massively increased the demand for slaves and the number of people captured and sold. Criticism of the slave trade is criticism of all the people involved in it.

No such word as “ Whataboutism”,  I very much doubt  that no furore would follow if the man killed by police was white.

[altus 540]

9 minutes ago, lazarus said:

No such word as “ Whataboutism”,

dictionary.com disagrees with you

 

I very much doubt  that no furore would follow if the man killed by police was white.

I very much doubt that the man would have been killed by that policeman if he had been white.

[lazarus 68]

14 minutes ago, altus said:

dictionary.com disagrees with you

 

 

I very much doubt that the man would have been killed by that policeman if he had been white.

That’s debatable,  

Whataboutism  a word made up to suit the occasion, like notseeingthepointism .

[bassbinn 10]

the numbers show that 9  unarmed black men were killed by police in 2019 out of 328 million for whatever reason 

 

the numbers show that 19  unarmed white men were killed by police in 2019 out of 328 million for whatever reason 

 

49 people a year are killed by lightning in usa

 

100000 people in usa police fore are black thats 20% they are over represented to there 13 to 16% population

why are they working for such a racist establishment and wheres all the whistle blowers exposing this racism

 

but best one and you gotta admit is the best one wheres all the comments gone that are against the guardian newspaper narrative

could it be sheffield forum is run by  slightly left wing biased people

 

[melthebell 863]

wow the amount of whataboutism LOL

[Branyy 10]

2 hours ago, Arnold_Lane said:

I don’t know the figure either.  You said that black people commit disproportionately more violent crime so it’s not surprising that a disproportionate number of black people die in custody.

 

I was saying that’s not the correct way to interpret the figures.  The correct way is to work out if the proportions of deaths in custody (or due to lethal force) correlate to the arrest rate.

 

But, since Floyd wasn’t being arrested for a violent crime I’m not sure why you’d introduce such a limitation in your evidence.

I was just making assumption that with increasing probability of being confronted by police increases the probability of killings by police. I also assumed that violent crime induces stronger response, that's why I limited the numbers to violent crimes. (and also I didn't have the complete numbers for all crimes and arrests). I think the assumptions were fairly rational.

 

Yes, Floyd case isn't falling to this category, but the topic of protests and riots isn't either just about this single case. If it was - well, the policeman is already arrested, charged and will appear at court.

 

I can promise that I'll look into more numbers and stats. But we need to realize, that burden of proof is not on me. Existence of systematic racial targeting by police is a strong claim and requires a strong evidence.

 

Something slightly related to think about - why are white violent criminals over-represented as victims of police shootings?

[Arnold_Lane 0]

19 minutes ago, Branyy said:

I was just making assumption that with increasing probability of being confronted by police increases the probability of killings by police.

That is true. 

 

I'm saying the proportion of people dying in custody/due to lethal force of a particular race should be directly equal to the proportion of that race who were arrested.  In theory at least.

 

Put simply; if half the people arrested are white but less than half the people who die in custody are white that wouldn't be the case.

 

I don't know what the figures actually show.  I was saying the conclusion you reached in your post I first responded to is not the correct way to analyse data

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Arnold_Lane

[bassbinn 10]

if it turned out to be proved that actually 8 times as many whites died in police custody than blacks 

the left would just say but they were white and so not racist killings 

 

if it turned out also that in that 8 times amount a couple of whites were killed by black officers they woudnt count either

 

[crazyhorse 37]

14 hours ago, Litotes said:

...

Once again we come back to a totalitarianism state akin to the Nazis...

 

So bang goes Chatsworth - pull it down as the Duke of Devonshire had servants...

Down with Hadrian's wall (and much of York) - the Romans enslaved the local population...

As for Whitby Abbey - that should be amongst the first to go, and Sheffield Cathedral because of their link to all the atrocities of the church etc etc etc

 

get real...

 

 

Spot on.

First they come for the statue, then the person...

Remove the man, remove the problem...

Very Orwellian...very Ministry of Truth...

An irony seemingly lost on on the muppets out protesting (in the middle of a health crisis).

 

The Far Left are just as much a joke as the Far Right.

 

Thankfully this is a moderate country and nobody will ever vote for these morons.

 

If you don't like the statue, have a local referendum, get some democratic legitimacy and move it to a museum if required.

Don't simply destroy it in 30 seconds - like you just destroyed your cause.