Closing Roads To Traffic & Widening Pavements For Social Distancing

[Resident 1,185]

3 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

I think you have to take into consideration that these are political decisions and politicians want to be re-elected. Politically it’s a very difficult decision to have to start telling private motorists that they have to pay to enter your city centre. Manchester tried a ballot on a congestion charge and failed to get it through. There was political fall out from it.

 

You are being more than a bit disingenuous regarding the council’s attitude to public transport.

 

For many years they have put considerable effort and many many millions of pounds into improving bus routes and bus stops. That work continues.

 

They also enforce bus restrictions via cameras and civil enforcement officers. You might argue they could do more of that, but again, there’s the issue of public/political acceptability. What is acceptable to you or me might appear insufficient to some or  excessive to others. There’s always a balance to be struck.

 

The pandemic has changed the way a lot of people travel and more are walking and cycling, which is something the government, regional and local authorities have been trying to encourage for many years. It is therefore perfectly understandable that they are doing whatever they can to lock in the benefits of this travel mode shift and keep it going on the right trajectory.

 

Theres also the point that public transport can’t shift anything like as many people as before doe to the distancing requirements. You might therefore understand that it might be less of a priority, certainly until things move back to something closer to previous normality. The measures being put in are temporary and could be removed when things change, or it’s found they aren’t effective. Or, they could be made permanent if they work. The point is that the government is giving local authorities the money to try these things out and pushing them to use it. The council would be remiss if they didn’t take the opportunity. 

Enforcement in the city is a joke. You say you can argeu that they could do more. Fairly easy to do more than nothing at all. The same problem areas continue to be problem areas despite constant reports.

Wicker, Spital Hill, West St, Attercliffe & Firth Park are consistantly ignored by enforcement teams. There are several bus gates that do not have enforcement camera and these are regularly abused. Bus stops in the aforementioned areas are often parked in, mainly by taxis and delivery drivers & reports of this are ignored by SCC. 
Recently they put blocks on Sheaf St to stop people parking on the pavement opposite the train station. Now people either park in the bus bay or across the road outside Subway, which is technically a different road and therefore not subject to the order. 

[Planner1 437]

12 hours ago, Resident said:

1. And just where do you suggest on Arundel Gate that they stop, perhaps in a prior bus stop thus blocking the stop for services actually marked to stop there, thus creating the same issue closer to the Moor.

2. From people in the transport industry/PTE that I know it was not discussed. The council told them it was happening and to deal with it. Do you really think if it was discussed there would have been an agreement to close a road that 10+ routes use throughout the day's service

 

3. You're supporting SCC's standing/narrative against obvious flaws within it's reasoning, you are contributing your voice to that so yeah you're arguing the point. 

 

4. Have you been on Arundel Gate this week? I have several times and noted an increase in the congestion & buses needing to change lanes when they would otherwise just have stayed in the marked bus lane allowing other traffic to flow.

 

Maybe you should do some light reading, try this link for several options.

Your 5 points? Here you go:

 

1. Covered in previous post

 

2. Covered in previous post

 

3. I was relating facts to you, which you clearly understand, but just want to split hairs.

 

4. Nope and I don’t need to. Folk on here and elsewhere would have been moaning if there had been any serious issues. Many of the shops opened this week and more people have been coming into town, which explains “congestion” increasing. In overall big picture congestion terms, a few buses turning into or out of stops isn’t going to make a huge difference. Maybe if general traffic gets held up a bit, they might go a different way, which might not be a bad thing.

 

5. Covered in previous post.

 

Happy now?

[Planner1 437]

23 minutes ago, Resident said:

Enforcement in the city is a joke. You say you can argeu that they could do more. Fairly easy to do more than nothing at all. The same problem areas continue to be problem areas despite constant reports.

Wicker, Spital Hill, West St, Attercliffe & Firth Park are consistantly ignored by enforcement teams. There are several bus gates that do not have enforcement camera and these are regularly abused. Bus stops in the aforementioned areas are often parked in, mainly by taxis and delivery drivers & reports of this are ignored by SCC. 
Recently they put blocks on Sheaf St to stop people parking on the pavement opposite the train station. Now people either park in the bus bay or across the road outside Subway, which is technically a different road and therefore not subject to the order. 

This is the problem, as I mentioned in previous posts, enforcement is an emotive issue and no matter how much or little you do, some people will be unhappy. It’s the same in every city and town.

 

Saying they do nothing at all is clearly wrong. They do a lot, you don’t see all of it or even a fraction of it, but they still do it. 
 

Part of the problem is the rules put in place by the government don’t help with speedy or efficient enforcement of parking. Councils used to be able to enforce certain restrictions via camera, but that lovely government minister Eric Pickles decided that had to mostly stop. The council had two camera vehicles and used to issue lots of tickets with them in places like Spital hill and BurngreaveRd that have no waiting / no loading restrictions. Eric put paid to that and now they can only use them on school keep clear and bus stop clear way markings ( but government are now changing the rules again to allow use in more places like mandatory cycle lanes...). 
 

Actually issuing a parking ticket is far more difficult than many imagine. There are statutory observation periods to carry out and periods of “grace” to observe, which often result in the offender seeing the enforcement officer and leaving the scene before a penalty can be issued. There actually aren’t that many restrictions which allow the issue of an instant ticket for stopping at all.

 

Some folk think that some of the areas you mention are “no-go” areas for enforcement. That is not true and parking services would be able to share the figures with you on how many tickets they do issue in those places. You only have to ask them. Contact details are on their web page.

 

The bus lanes and gates where non-compliance actually causes delays to buses and trams are already enforced by camera. The council has done counts and observations and can back this up with evidence. Some of the cameras they use can be moved from site to site if conditions change and enforcement is needed at another location. Again, the degree to which enforcement should be carried out is a point of debate. Some will say that all restrictions should be enforced all the time, others disagree. Businesses and community groups in the Glossop Road area have campaigned against the bus/tram gates due to the effect they say that enforcement has on trade and residents. Someone will always be unhappy no matter what you do.

 

There is always a game of “cat and mouse” between enforcement officers and drivers who know just how far they can push their luck without being ticketed. Taxi drivers fall into this category. You might be surprised how many of them are actually ticketed. Again, parking services can give you the figures if you ask.

 

Parking enforcement officers can’t be everywhere all the time. They have a list of priorities. Main arterial routes and public transport corridors are prioritised at peak times, city centre, main shopping areas, permit zones outside those times, schools also get regular visits. The number of actual enforcement officers is smaller than many might think and they cover several shifts from before morning peak, well into the evening. There’s always an argument for more of them, but again, that’s a factor of how much enforcement is acceptable to decision makers.

[Andy C 86]

A photo of the new bus stops on Carver Street that has replaced the ones on Leopold Street/Pinstone Street for social distancing...

 

You will observe the following "features"

- narrow pavement

- no shelters

- no timetable information, printed or electronic

- no safety notices

- no tactile paving

 

 

Whilst the ones on Furnival Gate that aren't in use until the council finish building the road aren't much better...

 

 

(photos from http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/)

Edited June 21, 2020 by Andy C

[nanoffive 10]

55 minutes ago, Andy C said:

A photo of the new bus stops on Carver Street that has replaced the ones on Leopold Street/Pinstone Street for social distancing...

 

You will observe the following "features"

- narrow pavement

- no shelters

- no timetable information, printed or electronic

- no safety notices

- no tactile paving

 

 

Whilst the ones on Furnival Gate that aren't in use until the council finish building the road aren't much better...

 

 

(photos from http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/)

Andy C, please can you tell me if the Carver street  stop is the right stop for me to alight for The Moor, from the 52A. Where does this bus stop next, after Carver street? Thanks. 

[Michael_N 36]

4 hours ago, Andy C said:

A photo of the new bus stops on Carver Street that has replaced the ones on Leopold Street/Pinstone Street for social distancing...

 

You will observe the following "features"

- narrow pavement

- no shelters

- no timetable information, printed or electronic

- no safety notices

- no tactile paving

 

 

Whilst the ones on Furnival Gate that aren't in use until the council finish building the road aren't much better...

 

 

(photos from http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/)

Total joke. On Arundel Gate they've also dangerously placed a bus stop right at the side of a pedestrian crossing, and if more than 1 bus is waiting to serve that stop, they then block the crossing and other vehicles have to overtake on a pedestrian crossing which is illegal.

 

The stops at the bottom of Arundel Gate are also a joke. Around 95% of people I've observed over the last few days have all been waiting under the canopy on the pavement. Can't really fault them for doing so!

[Resident 1,185]

I passed through Furnival Gate at just after 3pm on Saturday. 

 

The bit that SCC are supposed to be opening so buses can travel down towards Arundel was nowhere near completion, basically only lifted the paving slabs, and not a workman in sight. You'd think that "emergency" works would have boots on the ground all day to get it done. 🙄

[Bargepole23 337]

10 hours ago, Michael_N said:

Total joke. On Arundel Gate they've also dangerously placed a bus stop right at the side of a pedestrian crossing, and if more than 1 bus is waiting to serve that stop, they then block the crossing and other vehicles have to overtake on a pedestrian crossing which is illegal.

 

The stops at the bottom of Arundel Gate are also a joke. Around 95% of people I've observed over the last few days have all been waiting under the canopy on the pavement. Can't really fault them for doing so!

Or they could wait until the way is clear so they don't have to overtake on a crossing.

 

Certainly, waiting in the rain for a bus is one of the biggest problems the world is facing right now. It would have better to have not put the measures in place which allow a bit of social distancing, left the shops closed, until we can get some bus shelters up. Yeah?

 

What is needed is a bit of realization that organisations are operating with limited staff, in difficult working conditions, people working from home or furloughed, trying to buy materials from companies in the same position, trying to put in place measures which nobody have considered 6 months ago.

 

So much for that spirit of cooperation and all pulling together eh.

[Andy C 86]

14 hours ago, nanoffive said:

Andy C, please can you tell me if the Carver street  stop is the right stop for me to alight for The Moor, from the 52A. Where does this bus stop next, after Carver street? Thanks. 

At the moment... yes (assuming you are coming from the Crookes direction).

 

After Carver Street it should be Furnival Gate (ie top of the Moor), at the time of writing that road was still closed, it is due to open in the next day or two, after that it is the normal stops on Arundel Gate.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Andy C

[Andy C 86]

41 minutes ago, Bargepole23 said:

Or they could wait until the way is clear so they don't have to overtake on a crossing.

 

Certainly, waiting in the rain for a bus is one of the biggest problems the world is facing right now. It would have better to have not put the measures in place which allow a bit of social distancing, left the shops closed, until we can get some bus shelters up. Yeah?

 

What is needed is a bit of realization that organisations are operating with limited staff, in difficult working conditions, people working from home or furloughed, trying to buy materials from companies in the same position, trying to put in place measures which nobody have considered 6 months ago.

 

So much for that spirit of cooperation and all pulling together eh.

although of course the measures remove the ability of bus passengers to socially distance. Stops in spacious areas (Leopold Street and Peace Gardens) have been replaced with that narrow pavement on Carver Street!

 

The bus stops on Furnival Gate, replacing those on Pinstone Street, are key stops for people getting to the shops. Except that the road hasn't opened yet. Leopold Street and Pinstone Street shouldn't have been closed until their replacement was open!

[nanoffive 10]

3 hours ago, Andy C said:

At the moment... yes (assuming you are coming from the Crookes direction).

 

After Carver Street it should be Furnival Gate (ie top of the Moor), at the time of writing that road was still closed, it is due to open in the next day or two, after that it is the normal stops on Arundel Gate.

Thank you. I haven't been on a bus for the last 3 months, so was a bit bewildered  by the change. I think I will wait a few days, it sounds as though it will be easier then. Thanks again. 

[Andy C 86]

6 hours ago, nanoffive said:

Thank you. I haven't been on a bus for the last 3 months, so was a bit bewildered  by the change. I think I will wait a few days, it sounds as though it will be easier then. Thanks again. 

Apparently the road opened this afternoon, so the stops towards Woodhouse are:

 

- usual stops on Glossop Road and West Street

- Carver Street

- Moorhead (Furnival Gate)

- usual stops on Arundel Gate

 

The stops on Carver Street and Moorhead replace the stops on Leopold Street and Pinstone Street.

 

Going in the other direction towards Crookes the route is unchanged (ie via Church Street and West Street).

 

Social distancing arrangements are in place on board buses, avoid seats marked out of use, also government have made wearing face coverings mandatory for passengers on public transport (except for some exemptions for certain health conditions, young children etc) and you are asked to avoid using cash to buy tickets and instead pay by contactless or buy online.