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Information, Advice And Discussion About Islam For Non-Muslims

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Posted (edited)

Hi Friendly Muslim,

 

What do you think about women renouncing Islam and fleeing Saudi Arabia. Then being detained by foreign powers, no doubt at the behest of Saudi authorities, or powerful connected Saudi men. Then beaten up, duct taped wrists, ankles and mouth, before being forcibly  abducted on to a plane back to SA, and then imprisoned / tortured / murdered?

 

Just for reference: 

 

Edited by Waldo

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Hello Waldo,

 

Apologies for the delayed response. You've raised an interesting topic.

 

I believe Islam gives women a highly respected and protected status. The Holy Quran and the sayings of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ- salutations and peace be upon him) contain numerous verses and statements on treating women well.

 

Consider the following verses of the Holy Quran:      

 

“And We have enjoined on man (to be dutiful and good) to his parents. His mother bore him in weakness and hardship upon weakness and hardship, and his weaning is in two years -- give thanks to Me and to your parents. Unto Me is the final destination.”

 

“And live with them honorably.”  This is a reference to how men should live with their wives.

 

Also, consider the following specific sayings of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ- salutations and peace be upon him):

 

“I urge you to treat women well.”

 

“Stay with her (reference to the mother of the companion asking the question) for Paradise is beneath her feet.” (Often re-worded to ‘Paradise lies at the feet of the mother’).

 

“The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives.”

 

“Whoever has three daughters and is patient towards them, and feeds them, gives them to drink and clothes them from his riches, they will be a shield for him from the Fire on the Day of Resurrection.”

 

Basically, as one would imagine, Islam instructs men to treat women well, especially the women of one’s family.

 

The harrowing stories you allude to above are, of course, very unfortunate. I would assert that these incidents have very little to do with Islam, however. I am not even going to state that they are linked to a culture or a country (which the respective victims, with all due respect, seem to imply) because that would be unfair too. I am sure that the vast majority of families in the countries mentioned live together harmoniously.

 

These incidents are simply occurrences of domestic violence by abusive families. Renunciation of Islam is a complicated topic, but that has nothing to do with women specifically (ie. any conditions/punishments apply to men and women equally). And, in the main feature story above, one of the main perpetrators of the violence was actually the mother of the victim. Sinilarly, the conduct of immigration authorities, and how they collaborate, is obviously beyond the realm or influence of Islam.

 

Notwithstanding all this, it is, again, unfortunate and disturbing that a young woman cannot safely flee from an abusive domestic situation to a local in-country authority, although we could of course draw parallels to sad stories from here in the UK too. Regardless, any allegation of violence or torture by any victim should be investigated primarily by the local police. I am hopeful that this generally is the case in all Muslim countries, but the stories highlighted above obviously identify some kind of legal or welfare failure and a fatal lack of trust. Do please remember that upholding justice is a very serious requirement of Islam.

 

I hope this helps you understand the true Islamic viewpoint.

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If Children were born and not fed religious belief by adults meaning that religious conflicts were no more would not the World be a better place .

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3 hours ago, Parkside said:

If Children were born and not fed religious belief by adults meaning that religious conflicts were no more would not the World be a better place .

Watching the news the other day about all the current expeditions heading to Mars.  The report expanded to how its hoped that mankind will have a base on the Moon, possibly by the end of thiw decade & further down the line, on Mars. 

 

When they come to asking for volunteers to live on the bases, it might be a good idea to state, 'Only atheists apply please.' 

 

Would starting in a new place, without the shackles of any religion be a bonus?  I think it would.  It'd certainly be one less piece of baggage that you could leave back on Earth. 

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My perception, is that certainly within Saudi Arabia, mistreatment of women is systemic. It's abhorrent. Local police you say? The same local police who imprison these women on their (forced) return (if they're lucky enough not to be 'disappeared')? These women can only be released from prison in to the custody of their male guardian, who is often also their abuser.

 

Just as I would judge a person by their deeds, and not by their claims; I can only judge an ideology by it's fruit, and not by the claims of it's adherents, and what I see of the Islamic world, I'm sorry to say, it's not a pretty picture.

 

You know, for some reason, I am reminded of the Chinese Community Party (CCP). They are controlling, manipulative and always going about trying to foster a favourable opinion (of itself) in the minds of other people (they hate truth, they don't want you to see it, they want you to swallow their state sanctioned faux 'truth'). This kind of manipulative behaviour is woefully apparent to most people; sadly, not to the raving Chinese nationalist types, who equate the CCP with China itself, and do not see that one can exist without the other.

 

Sometimes I think there's an element of religion that resembles the mind control of the CCP. Perhaps this control thing is ultimately a fear based reaction?

 

Did you know that Winnie the Pooh is banned in China?

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The five pillars of wisdom says Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. This seems to leave Jesus out in the cold, doesn't it.  Why isn't Allah just one of the messengers of God and Jesus another messenger of god?

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40 minutes ago, woolyhead said:

The five pillars of wisdom says Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. This seems to leave Jesus out in the cold, doesn't it.  Why isn't Allah just one of the messengers of God and Jesus another messenger of god?

Think you have got the fundamentals all wrong.

 

Allah is God

Jesus was a messenger- his god was Allah/ Elohim 

 

All the same.

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19 hours ago, Waldo said:

My perception, is that certainly within Saudi Arabia, mistreatment of women is systemic. It's abhorrent. Local police you say? The same local police who imprison these women on their (forced) return (if they're lucky enough not to be 'disappeared')? These women can only be released from prison in to the custody of their male guardian, who is often also their abuser.

 

Just as I would judge a person by their deeds, and not by their claims; I can only judge an ideology by it's fruit, and not by the claims of it's adherents, and what I see of the Islamic world, I'm sorry to say, it's not a pretty picture.

 

You know, for some reason, I am reminded of the Chinese Community Party (CCP). They are controlling, manipulative and always going about trying to foster a favourable opinion (of itself) in the minds of other people (they hate truth, they don't want you to see it, they want you to swallow their state sanctioned faux 'truth'). This kind of manipulative behaviour is woefully apparent to most people; sadly, not to the raving Chinese nationalist types, who equate the CCP with China itself, and do not see that one can exist without the other.

 

Sometimes I think there's an element of religion that resembles the mind control of the CCP. Perhaps this control thing is ultimately a fear based reaction?

 

Did you know that Winnie the Pooh is banned in China?

Waldo,

 

I do not want to be perceived to be criticising Saudi Arabia or China - I would be falling into the age-old 'religion to politics to power' trap, which is the real element that most non-religous people dislike (as opposed to religion itself).

 

However, you are actually inadvertantly making a counter-argument that supports what I stated above. You claim Saudi Arabia and China/CCP have strong similarities in their approach to governing their countries and people. The first country is deeply religous while the second is strongly against religion. So, my point is that, any failings on their respective parts have nothing to do with religion/Islam.

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Hello woolyhead,

 

Mr Fisk is correct; you have got that the fundamentals mixed up. But that is fine; that is the point of this topic - to spread awareness about Islam.

 

So as Musims, we believe in Allah as the One True God. We then believe that Allah sent many messengers into the world to guide mankind to Allah.  The Holy Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ- salutations and peace be upon him) and Jesus (refered to as Prophet Isa - alaihi salaam - peace be upon him) were both two illustrious Messengers of Allah.

 

Thanks for posting.

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On 02/08/2020 at 12:54, Baron99 said:

Watching the news the other day about all the current expeditions heading to Mars.  The report expanded to how its hoped that mankind will have a base on the Moon, possibly by the end of thiw decade & further down the line, on Mars. 

 

When they come to asking for volunteers to live on the bases, it might be a good idea to state, 'Only atheists apply please.' 

 

Would starting in a new place, without the shackles of any religion be a bonus?  I think it would.  It'd certainly be one less piece of baggage that you could leave back on Earth. 

Bang on

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23 hours ago, woolyhead said:

The five pillars of wisdom says Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. This seems to leave Jesus out in the cold, doesn't it.  Why isn't Allah just one of the messengers of God and Jesus another messenger of god?

It’s a timing issue.  Islam is nothing more than the word of God. It was sent down over history to various prophets including Jesus and Moses.  

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