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9 minutes ago, Mr Fisk said:

Wherever that takes place, which is wrong- does not mean it is advocated in the slightest by Islam.

 

What some people do does not mean it represents the religion as a whole.

Perhaps not, but it is being done in the name of Islam. I presume it's by people who hold a literal interpretation (how many are there?) and select  the verses that give them the excuse to carry out their agenda.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, carosio said:

Perhaps not, but it is being done in the name of Islam. I presume it's by people who hold a literal interpretation (how many are there?) and select  the verses that give them the excuse to carry out their agenda.

Yes you may possibly be right, but surely if these groups or people carry out such actions, then they are by law of Islam,  themselves guilty.

 

So under an Islamic run state, which adheres to the Quran and Sunnah, would see these people face serious punishment.

 

Justice is at the heart of Islam.

Edited by Mr Fisk

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46 minutes ago, carosio said:

Perhaps not, but it is being done in the name of Islam. I presume it's by people who hold a literal interpretation (how many are there?) and select  the verses that give them the excuse to carry out their agenda.

More specifically they take a literal interpretation of verses taken out of context to further what are very human and political agendas.  
 

what they do is completely against the core messages of the Quran. Core texts - especially those from centuries ago - will always be treated this way. 

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4 hours ago, Mr Fisk said:

Yes you may possibly be right, but surely if these groups or people carry out such actions, then they are by law of Islam,  themselves guilty.

 

So under an Islamic run state, which adheres to the Quran and Sunnah, would see these people face serious punishment.

 

Justice is at the heart of Islam.

Are there any states which hold themselves (in your opinion) as an exemplar of the faith, and apply the sort of justice that you admire?

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26 minutes ago, carosio said:

Are there any states which hold themselves (in your opinion) as an exemplar of the faith, and apply the sort of justice that you admire?

In my view, today I do not think there is any that totally follows the complete just and fair system that Islam brought in the early periods.

 

I guess it comes down to who governs the country and humans tend to fall foul of laws and follow their own desires.

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19 hours ago, Mr Fisk said:

Yes you may possibly be right, but surely if these groups or people carry out such actions, then they are by law of Islam,  themselves guilty.

 

So under an Islamic run state, which adheres to the Quran and Sunnah, would see these people face serious punishment.

 

Justice is at the heart of Islam.

And that would be capital punishment, am I right?

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Branyy said:

And that would be capital punishment, am I right?

It would depend on the crime. 

 

I'm no expert but under a righteous governed law, hadd punishments are prescribed, but as mentioned, it depends on the seriousness of the crime.

 

... If anyone kills a person—unless it is for murder or for spreading mischief in the land—it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people (Quran 5:32).

 

The above would include terrorism and groups like ISIS.

Edited by Mr Fisk

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15 hours ago, Mr Fisk said:

In my view, today I do not think there is any that totally follows the complete just and fair system that Islam brought in the early periods.

 

I guess it comes down to who governs the country and humans tend to fall foul of laws and follow their own desires.

And in a similar way there are no states that are run on Christian, Jewish, Buddhist lines etc.  

 

It is, by definition, impossible.   Those creeds are by nature divinely inspired.  Man - with all his flaw - can aspire to follow God's understanding, but will never be able to use those principles to govern other man.  Only God can do that.

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Posted (edited)

Hello Everbody,

 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed on here - I have read through your posts and I really value all your opinions. I am also very impressed by the level of Islamic knowldge many of you possess.

 

I certainly think Islam is tolerant and peaceful towards other religions. That does not need to prevent Muslims from inviting others to Islam, however. My understanding is illustrated by the the following authentic narration about the Holy Prophet Muhammad  (sallallahu alaihi wassalam - salutations and peace be upon him):

 

"A young Jewish boy used to serve the Prophet (ﷺ - salutations and peace be upon him) and he became sick. So the Prophet (ﷺ - salutations and peace be upon him) went to visit him. He sat near his head and asked him to embrace Islam. The boy looked at his father, who was sitting there; the latter told him to obey Abul-Qasim (an honoury name for the Holy Prophet Muhammad  (sallallahu alaihi wassalam - salutations and peace be upon him): and the boy embraced Islam. The Prophet (ﷺ  - salutations and peace be upon him) came out saying: "Praises be to Allah Who saved the boy from the Hell-fire.""

 

The Holy Prophet Muhammad  (sallallahu alaihi wassalam - salutations and peace be upon him) obviously had concern for this sick boy (I believe the boy died shortly after becoming Muslim) and therefore visited him. They must have obviously been on friendly terms, but the Holy Prophet Muhammad  (sallallahu alaihi wassalam - salutations and peace be upon him) had the primary concern of the boy's well-being in the afterlife.

 

I think this is the embodiment of true Islamic concern for humanity - treat people well in this life, but always remain concerned about their afterlife.

 

Keep safe, and thanks for reading and contributing.

Edited by Friendly Muslim

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Posted (edited)

Hi Everybody,

 

I hope you are all well. I wanted to share a short post about the universal Mercy of Allah, before I move onto different aspects of the Islamic belief and faith.

 

A very inspiring verse from the Holy Quran that I have recently been reciting is:

 

Say: "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.'' "And turn in repentance (and in obedience with true faith) to your Lord and submit to Him before the torment comes upon you….''

 

The greatest commentators of the Holy Quran have explained ‘transgressed against themselves’ to basically mean very excessive major sinning (and I dare not to quote the extent to which they have gone to define the severity of this sinning, including both sins against humanity and sins against Allah). However, they have then explained that this verse shows Allah is willing to forgive everyone, without exception. The condition that Allah imposes is simply that anyone who seeks forgiveness from Allah needs to repent and turn away from their bad deeds, and turn, instead, in faith, humility and obedience to Allah.

 

On a more mundane level, I have heard local individuals say things like 'I am interested in Islam, but it is too late for me!' - that sentiment fits very comfortably within the scope of the verse above too. It is never too late to start developing a positive relationship with Allah; such is His Mercy and such is His Blessed Entity.

 

Thanks again for reading.

Edited by Friendly Muslim

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FM .. I have a question for you, and i ask it as a recent revert.

 

Why is it necessary to recite the Shahada and the five salat in Arabic?  The Qur'an makes it clear that Allah knows and sees everything and 3:29 tells us "Whether you conceal what is in your heart or reveal it, Allah will know it."    

 

The words are as simple and beautiful in English (and any other language) as they are in Arabic, and surely in reciting them it is important that you believe what is behind them, rather than having to go through what is essentially a phonetic recitation?

 

I've asked several Muslim and have never received what I consider to be a proper explanation.

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On ‎04‎/‎06‎/‎2020 at 14:11, bendix said:

FM .. I have a question for you, and i ask it as a recent revert.

 

Why is it necessary to recite the Shahada and the five salat in Arabic?  The Qur'an makes it clear that Allah knows and sees everything and 3:29 tells us "Whether you conceal what is in your heart or reveal it, Allah will know it."    

 

The words are as simple and beautiful in English (and any other language) as they are in Arabic, and surely in reciting them it is important that you believe what is behind them, rather than having to go through what is essentially a phonetic recitation?

 

I've asked several Muslim and have never received what I consider to be a proper explanation.

Bendix – Assalaamualaikum – and congratulations on your recent reversion!

 

I probably cannot answer your questions any better than the previous Muslims who have attempted, but I will try. I will also try to give you some context, which may help you understand.

 

With regards to the Shahaadah (verbal ‘testification’ of faith – for the benefit of others reading this - after which point a person is regarded as a Muslim), I have not been able to confirm that it is obligatory to pronounce this in Arabic. I do think it probably is obligatory, or at least very important, to recite it in Arabic. Whenever I have helped someone through their Shahaadah, I have always provided them with the verbal translation in English first, and then helped them recite the words in Arabic. What I can tell you is that knowledge of what is being recited is a condition of the Shahaadah; getting the Arabic pronunciation perfect is not!

 

As far as the Salaah (daily prayer) is concerned, let me give you some context.

 

You are probably aware that in Salaah we have to recite Surah Fatihah (the opening chapter of the Holy Quran) and then the equivalent of any three additional verses of the Holy Quran in every Rakah (unit) of the prayer. Additional verses can also be recited, but the scholars of Islam state that this minimum portion of the Holy Quran (so Surah Fatihah plus three additional verses) must be recited very precisely. If the person praying speaks Arabic and decides to add an extra wa (‘and’), al ('the') or make any other minor changes of this nature, then that prayer is essentially invalid. Basically, what I am implying is that the key aspect is not to recite the prayer in Arabic, but it is to recite the Holy Quran very precisely and as perfectly as possible, exactly as revealed.

 

If you were to recite a translation of the Holy Quran, then you can imagine how much variation there could be in the wording, and how it would compare with the above ruling. Remember that the Holy Quran, and the Salaah itself, has remained so pure and authentic over all these centuries, across the globe and across billions of Muslims. The consistency and unity in this this matter is part of the divine beauty of Islam.

 

Arabic is not my native language either, but I cannot imagine reciting my prayers in English or, say, Urdu (my parents’ mother language). Of course, when you raise your hands for Dua (personal prayers outside Salaah), you can ask Allah and speak to Him in whichever language you like. But even then, it is good to know and start with some of the special prayers that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ - salutation and peace be upon him) recited in Arabic (including reciting salutations on him ﷺ - salutation and peace be upon him).

 

Overall, you are correct, however. Allah knows exactly what is in our hearts and, to some extent, the requirement to recite all these blessed verses and prayers in Arabic is more of a divine formality. I know of a historical story from the early 20th century where there was a young woman in France who converted to Islam secretly and concealed it from her family. Assuming she did not have open access to an Arabic speaker to teach her, I have every hope and trust in Allah that He accepted her Shahaadah in whichever language she was able to pronounce it in, and any subsequent worship she was able to perform too.   

 

I hope this helps. Jazaakallah - thanks for asking.

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