Information, Advice And Discussion About Islam For Non-Muslims

[Friendly Muslim 0]

6 minutes ago, blackydog said:

How are these fellow followers permitted to kill each other within the teachings of the Quran?

Can this EVER be resolved?

 

Hello again blackydog,

 

In simple terms I would suggest that these 'fellow followers' are NOT 'permitted to kill each other within the teachings of the Quran.' The Sunni-Shia issue, which you are referring to obviously, actually started as a very superficial issue. It took decades to develop into a major political problem and then centuries to develop into a widespread violent issue. And it all happened after the Holy Quran was revealed and fully compiled.

 

It is an unfortunate issue. It can be resolved, and I hope it does get resolved as soon as possible.

[Lex Luthor 10]

Thank you for your answers, Friendly Muslim.  That's very enlightening.

 

Is the sacrifice referring to the same individuals who appear in the Bible, when God tells Abraham to sacrifice a ram in place of his son, Isaac?

 

 

 

 

[kidley 48]

5 hours ago, Lex Luthor said:

Thank you for your answers, Friendly Muslim.  That's very enlightening.

 

Is the sacrifice referring to the same individuals who appear in the Bible, when God tells Abraham to sacrifice a ram in place of his son, Isaac?

 

 

 

 

I think you have got that a little wrong Lex Luthor

 

C&P

But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied.

12

"Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

13

Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram ^[1] caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son.

 

http://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/GEN+22.html

[Friendly Muslim 0]

16 hours ago, Lex Luthor said:

Thank you for your answers, Friendly Muslim.  That's very enlightening.

 

Is the sacrifice referring to the same individuals who appear in the Bible, when God tells Abraham to sacrifice a ram in place of his son, Isaac?

 

 

 

 

Hi Lex Luthor (I'm glad you found my post enlightening), and hello kidley and enntee,

 

The story of the offering of Prophet Ibrahim (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) is similar in the currently available Bible and the Holy Quran. The key difference is that the Holy Quran states that the son that Prophet Ibrahim (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) offered was Prophet Ismail (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) and not Prophet Ishaq (Isaac) (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace).

 

I hadn’t read the current Biblical verses in detail before so thanks to kidley for contributing.

 

Obviously, which son was offered is an important detail, but the key message of both versions of the story is that Prophet Ibrahim (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) was extremely obedient to Allah, along with his son (it is clear from the Holy Quran that Prophet Ismail (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) was fully aware of what was happening – see quote below), and Allah rewarded them for their obedience and compliance and, of course, did not let any harm come to either of his beloved slaves.

 

Prophet Ibrahim (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) is referred to as the ‘Khalil’ of Allah in Islam and in the Holy Quran, which he means ‘intimate, or very close, friend’ of Allah.

 

For your interest, I have quoted below an epic passage of the Holy Quran that describes the incident:

 

“And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you. So look what you think!'' He said: "O my father! Do that which you are commanded, if Allah wills, you shall find me of the patient.'' Then, when they had both submitted themselves, and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead; We called out to him: "O Ibrahim!'' "You have fulfilled the dream!'' Verily, thus do We reward the doers of good. Verily, that indeed was a manifest trial. And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice; And We left for him among the later generations. "Salam (peace!) be upon Ibrahim!'' Thus indeed do We reward the doers of good. Verily, he was one of Our believing servants.”

 

Thanks for reading!

Edited May 26, 2020 by Friendly Muslim

[blackydog 40]

21 hours ago, Friendly Muslim said:

Hello again blackydog,

 

In simple terms I would suggest that these 'fellow followers' are NOT 'permitted to kill each other within the teachings of the Quran.' The Sunni-Shia issue, which you are referring to obviously, actually started as a very superficial issue. It took decades to develop into a major political problem and then centuries to develop into a widespread violent issue. And it all happened after the Holy Quran was revealed and fully compiled.

 

It is an unfortunate issue. It can be resolved, and I hope it does get resolved as soon as possible.

With all respect, I have to question your answer, where I think you have been economical with the explanation. If they are not permitted to kill each other within the teachings of the Quran, then why are they doing it? Surely they may as well have been drinking alcohol as to the notice they are taking of their (your) God? 

You also say it can be resolved but offer no suggestions as to how. After, as you say, centuries of disagreement and violence, there has been no advancement towards a resolution, then it could safely be argued there isn't going to be one any time soon.  

[Lex Luthor 10]

6 hours ago, Friendly Muslim said:

Hi Lex Luthor (I'm glad you found my post enlightening), and hello kidley and enntee,

 

The story of the offering of Prophet Ibrahim (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) is similar in the currently available Bible and the Holy Quran. The key difference is that the Holy Quran states that the son that Prophet Ibrahim (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) offered was Prophet Ismail (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) and not Prophet Ishaq (Isaac) (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace).

 

I hadn’t read the current Biblical verses in detail before so thanks to kidley for contributing.

 

Obviously, which son was offered is an important detail, but the key message of both versions of the story is that Prophet Ibrahim (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) was extremely obedient to Allah, along with his son (it is clear from the Holy Quran that Prophet Ismail (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) was fully aware of what was happening – see quote below), and Allah rewarded them for their obedience and compliance and, of course, did not let any harm come to either of his beloved slaves.

 

Prophet Ibrahim (alaihis salaam – upon him be peace) is referred to as the ‘Khalil’ of Allah in Islam and in the Holy Quran, which he means ‘intimate, or very close, friend’ of Allah.

 

For your interest, I have quoted below an epic passage of the Holy Quran that describes the incident:

 

“And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you. So look what you think!'' He said: "O my father! Do that which you are commanded, if Allah wills, you shall find me of the patient.'' Then, when they had both submitted themselves, and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead; We called out to him: "O Ibrahim!'' "You have fulfilled the dream!'' Verily, thus do We reward the doers of good. Verily, that indeed was a manifest trial. And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice; And We left for him among the later generations. "Salam (peace!) be upon Ibrahim!'' Thus indeed do We reward the doers of good. Verily, he was one of Our believing servants.”

 

Thanks for reading!

Thank you.

[kidley 48]

3 hours ago, blackydog said:

With all respect, I have to question your answer, where I think you have been economical with the explanation. If they are not permitted to kill each other within the teachings of the Quran, then why are they doing it? Surely they may as well have been drinking alcohol as to the notice they are taking of their (your) God? 

You also say it can be resolved but offer no suggestions as to how. After, as you say, centuries of disagreement and violence, there has been no advancement towards a resolution, then it could safely be argued there isn't going to be one any time soon.  

I would say muslims are killing each other in pitsmoor - nether edge ect, religious books are open to interpretation all imans have a wide view of the writings. (yes i know), you pick your own beliefs out of the preachings of any religion.

 

                                       shukria

 

                                   

[bendix 10]

Unlike other holy books, the Koran acknowledges the above point about interpretation. 
 

In the third sura (roughly chapter) Allah says in one of his messages to the Prophet: “Some of its verses are definite in meaning - these are the  cornerstone of the scriptures - and others are ambiguous. The perverse at heart eagerly pursue the ambiguities in their attempt to make trouble and  to pin down a specific meaning of their own. Only God knows the true meaning.”  
 

This is to be expected.  It’s not a scientific text.  Any important text - religious, literary, philosophical - will be open to interpretation in different ways if you focus on single lines or verses. 

[apelike 10]

14 minutes ago, bendix said:

Unlike other holy books, the Koran acknowledges the above point about interpretation. 
 

In the third sura (roughly chapter) Allah says in one of his messages to the Prophet: “Some of its verses are definite in meaning - these are the  cornerstone of the scriptures - and others are ambiguous. The perverse at heart eagerly pursue the ambiguities in their attempt to make trouble and  to pin down a specific meaning of their own. Only God knows the true meaning.”  
 

This is to be expected.  It’s not a scientific text.  Any important text - religious, literary, philosophical - will be open to interpretation in different ways if you focus on single lines or verses. 

Do you then agree that stating that the texts are a historical accounts is also open to interpretation as they may in fact be wrong.

Edited May 26, 2020 by apelike

[carosio 185]

11 hours ago, bendix said:

Unlike other holy books, the Koran acknowledges the above point about interpretation. 
 

In the third sura (roughly chapter) Allah says in one of his messages to the Prophet: “Some of its verses are definite in meaning - these are the  cornerstone of the scriptures - and others are ambiguous. The perverse at heart eagerly pursue the ambiguities in their attempt to make trouble and  to pin down a specific meaning of their own. Only God knows the true meaning.”  
 

This is to be expected.  It’s not a scientific text.  Any important text - religious, literary, philosophical - will be open to interpretation in different ways if you focus on single lines or verses. 

As those holy texts have been handed down (to earth) and are deliberately ambiguous with the true meaning being withheld, then it is no surprise that readers have no other option but to invent their own interpretations without hope of clarification.  What then, is the point?

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, carosio said:

As those holy texts have been handed down (to earth) and are deliberately ambiguous with the true meaning being withheld, then it is no surprise that readers have no other option but to invent their own interpretations without hope of clarification.  What then, is the point?

 

 

To my knowledge, you as an ordinary reader cannot just interpret it as you please.

 

There are paths, like the exegesis of the Quran through scholars and more importantly, the understanding and explanation from Muhammad.

 

I've read something about "those who transgress" in the Quran, this can also relate to those who take the text out of context- without following the proper meaning through the scholarly or prophetic guidance.

 

Maybe Friendly Muslim can elaborate.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Guest

[carosio 185]

What I meant by "reader" was anyone who reads and attempts to understand the text, scholar or otherwise. Your answer doesn't fully explain the key point I was highlighting which is the phrase "God only knows the true meaning".