Are We Heading For A Recession Like In The 30s?

[Arnold_Lane 0]

13 hours ago, MarcyC said:

If you print or create  currency to ease a recession and let it be known then you undermine the buying power of the currency you printed and you are back to square one.  Look at the US where excessive quantative easing is driving their economy into the ground.

If no-one knows you have 'created' extra currency then the buying power is not as likely to be undermined and the desired effect is more likely to be attained.

Quantative Easing in secret huh?  You think that’s a thing?

[MarcyC 0]

On 04/09/2020 at 09:20, Arnold_Lane said:

Quantative Easing in secret huh?  You think that’s a thing?

Well if it was done in secret and done well I guess we are unlikely to know.

 

Perhaps some have done QE openly to an extent of X Billion and used the effects of that to cover up even greater QE being done without common knowledge...  its one possible scenario that is not too far fetched especially when you consider that many believe our respective governements treat us like mushrooms.

[Anna B 1,414]

2 hours ago, MarcyC said:

Well if it was done in secret and done well I guess we are unlikely to know.

 

Perhaps some have done QE openly to an extent of X Billion and used the effects of that to cover up even greater QE being done without common knowledge...  its one possible scenario that is not too far fetched especially when you consider that many believe our respective governements treat us like mushrooms.

Nothing secret about it. We've been Quantative easing more or less non-stop. They don't advertise the fact, but it goes on all the time.  

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/08/the-verdict-on-10-years-of-quantitative-easing

[Arnold_Lane 0]

On 05/09/2020 at 13:21, MarcyC said:

Well if it was done in secret and done well I guess we are unlikely to know.

 

Perhaps some have done QE openly to an extent of X Billion and used the effects of that to cover up even greater QE being done without common knowledge...  its one possible scenario that is not too far fetched especially when you consider that many believe our respective governements treat us like mushrooms.

For a dangerous second there I thought you knew what you were talking about.

 

Define "common knowledge" in this context.  Do you mean even the man on the Clapham Omnibus knows - or it's just common knowledge in the banking world?

[El Cid 220]

51 minutes ago, Arnold_Lane said:

For a dangerous second there I thought you knew what you were talking about.

 

Define "common knowledge" in this context.  Do you mean even the man on the Clapham Omnibus knows - or it's just common knowledge in the banking world?

If investors are aware of QE then that is what counts. They are not your average Sun reader.

[El Cid 220]

A Bank of England (BoE) deputy governor has spoken out against setting negative interest rates, which would bring the cost of borrowing below zero.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54332980

 

So what will 'boost' the economy?

I personally think all of the things that the Government do are just tinkering. Reducing immigration will restrict workers travelling and posible tarriffs are also a negitive. As will be repaying the debt incurred in the 'eat out to help out'; that just kept consumer spending going.

Inflation is around 1%, despite massive Government spending.

[Anna B 1,414]

A lot of traffic on facebook criticising Universal Credit.

 

I suspect these are people's first encounter with the iniquitous system having recently being made redundant post covid.

 

The main gist seems to be from people who have 'paid into the system all my life' and now find that they can't get any help whatsoever from Universal credit or indeed anything else, usually because they have some savings, a partner who is working,(even though it takes 2 wages to run a house these days,) and/or a mortgage.

 

I must say this does seem unfair.

Imagine a man or woman in their late 50s or early 60s on a moderate wage, who have worked since 15 or 16 all their life paying in, but who now find themselves unemployed through no fault of their own. They have saved what they can for a rainy day or to supplement their pension as retirement is looming but discover to their horror that this precludes them from receiving any financial help from the state. They have little hope of finding another job in the current climate, but are expected to use those savings to live on for the remaining years until they can draw their meagre old age pension, by which time the savings are gone and they have nothing to look forward to but more years of penury. 

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Anna B

[Jim117 72]

Hi AnnaB, just to say my OH has worked for the DWP as a benefits adviser for many years. They do indeed get many calls from exactly the type of people you have described who justifiebly can’t understand why the system they have paid in to for decades won’t help them in their hour of need. Also, just so you know, the front line staff pretty much think the UC system is a pile of crap. Regards.

[nightrider 13]

On 06/10/2020 at 01:38, Anna B said:

A lot of traffic on facebook criticising Universal Credit.

 

I suspect these are people's first encounter with the iniquitous system having recently being made redundant post covid.

 

The main gist seems to be from people who have 'paid into the system all my life' and now find that they can't get any help whatsoever from Universal credit or indeed anything else, usually because they have some savings, a partner who is working,(even though it takes 2 wages to run a house these days,) and/or a mortgage.

 

I must say this does seem unfair.

Imagine a man or woman in their late 50s or early 60s on a moderate wage, who have worked since 15 or 16 all their life paying in, but who now find themselves unemployed through no fault of their own. They have saved what they can for a rainy day or to supplement their pension as retirement is looming but discover to their horror that this precludes them from receiving any financial help from the state. They have little hope of finding another job in the current climate, but are expected to use those savings to live on for the remaining years until they can draw their meagre old age pension, by which time the savings are gone and they have nothing to look forward to but more years of penury. 

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

Lots of those people voted Tory (I know many in the music industry), so I don't think that faction can really complain now they fall victim to their policies. The rest can though of course.

 

Worth noting that the above Tories I refer to have stated they will never vote for them again now they have been shafted. What that translates to under FPTP in the next election I don't know though.

 

No-one has really paid in to get something out though - we don't have a welfare state in my opinion because we don't pay anywhere near the levels of income tax they do in European countries where they do have good welfare states. You get what you pay for.

Edited October 7, 2020 by nightrider

[Anna B 1,414]

42 minutes ago, Jim117 said:

Hi AnnaB, just to say my OH has worked for the DWP as a benefits adviser for many years. They do indeed get many calls from exactly the type of people you have described who justifiebly can’t understand why the system they have paid in to for decades won’t help them in their hour of need. Also, just so you know, the front line staff pretty much think the UC system is a pile of crap. Regards.

Hi Jim, your wife has my sympathy, it must be a very difficult job at the moment. 

Even those who have jumped through all the hoops and managed to match the criteria for a bit of help (and it is only a bit, hardly enough to live on,) don't realise what a harsh and unbending system it is to comply with, as Tory Theresa May said, she wanted to make it as uncomfortable as possible.

 

I'm hoping that Boris might modify it to suit the times, but I'm not holding my breath. The poor make a nice easy target for recouping some money. However I notice the unforunate people complaining on Twitter, Facebook etc are still blaming the 'skivers,' the 'workshy,' 'the one's who know how to work the system' etc. They still don't seem to realise how they've been long manipulated into blaming other victims who are actually the poorest of the poor rather than putting the blame where it lies, with the government, who used this propaganda as an excuse to change the rules: the same rules that the newly unemployed are now falling foul of.  

 

I

[alchresearch 214]

14 minutes ago, nightrider said:

Lots of those people voted Tory (I know many in the music industry), so I don't think that faction can really complain now they fall victim to their policies. The rest can though of course.

 

Worth noting that the above Tories I refer to have stated they will never vote for them again now they have been shafted. What that translates to under FPTP in the next election I don't know though.

I think so many voted Tory in the last election just to give Labour the bloody nose it needed to see sense and get rid of Corbyn.    Once Stamer or his successor settle in,  and Brexit is gone and finished I think we should see a comfortable Labour victory in 2024.

[Anna B 1,414]

21 minutes ago, nightrider said:

Lots of those people voted Tory (I know many in the music industry), so I don't think that faction can really complain now they fall victim to their policies. The rest can though of course.

 

Worth noting that the above Tories I refer to have stated they will never vote for them again now they have been shafted. What that translates to under FPTP in the next election I don't know though.

 

No-one has really paid in to get something out though - we don't have a welfare state in my opinion because we don't pay anywhere near the levels of income tax they do in European countries where they do have good welfare states. You get what you pay for.

I think someone did a study, and when you add up ALL the taxes we pay, including  things like road tax, VAT, Council tax,  and other hidden taxes as well as income tax, it works out we pay nearly as much as the Scandinavian countries for much less in return.

5 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

I think so many voted Tory in the last election just to give Labour the bloody nose it needed to see sense and get rid of Corbyn.    Once Stamer or his successor settle in,  and Brexit is gone and finished I think we should see a comfortable Labour victory in 2024.

What's the point of a Labour victory if it's merely a quasi Tory party that will not change anything for the people? We'll be back where we started howling for change, which is what led to the rise of Corbyn in the first place.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Anna B