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Spending £1.5bn Moving Sheaf Street

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On 13/03/2020 at 12:25, Westie1889 said:

Great idea I think. I travel a lot and have seen on the continent how train station development can kick-start regeneration, the Dutch did this as a response to the financial crisis and it worked really well.

businesses and residents like to be close to major transport hubs so if this frees up more land for this it can only be a good thing.

Also it will join the train station to the city centre and make a much nicer entrance to the city centre for visitors.

i get the historical criticism of SCC but they have to look at maximising the potential benefits of HS2 and this shows they are serious about it.

 

👍 Agree, in theory.  The trams need rolling out to other areas and to include Chesterfield Road.

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7 hours ago, Lex Luthor said:

👍 Agree, in theory.  The trams need rolling out to other areas and to include Chesterfield Road.

Most definitely. Great form of transport. Meadowhead via Woodseats, Totley, Ecclesall, Fullwood and Crookes would benefit hugely if they were served by trams.

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5 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

Most definitely. Great form of transport. Meadowhead via Woodseats, Totley, Ecclesall, Fullwood and Crookes would benefit hugely if they were served by trams.

I'd love to see the tram network extended but who is going to pay for it? The council has nothing like the money it had back in 1990.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Longcol said:

I'd love to see the tram network extended but who is going to pay for it? The council has nothing like the money it had back in 1990.

Not a clue. Central government? Wasn't really the point of my post though.

Edited by Bargepole23

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12 hours ago, Longcol said:

I'd love to see the tram network extended but who is going to pay for it? The council has nothing like the money it had back in 1990.

Have you not read the fine words of our Mayor in his so called transport strategy published 18 months ago below are a few quotes from it

 

"I will invest in tram, tram-train,
bus rapid transit, bus networks, active travel
and tackle our congestion hotspots."

 

Supertram renewal.
• Extend tram/tram-train coverage across the Sheffield City Region.

 

and

 

NEXT STEPS:
In 2019 we will publish a regional transport strategy and develop an implementation plan which sets out how we
intend to achieve the ambitions described in this vision document. Detailed options for the delivery and funding
of individual projects will be brought forward and considered on a case-by-case basis.

 

Not seen any further up date as was promised

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Longcol said:

I'd love to see the tram network extended but who is going to pay for it? The council has nothing like the money it had back in 1990.

The money for the tram system mainly came from central government.
 

Remember that SYPTE are the tram system owner and they promoted the project not SCC. SYPTE are the passenger transport authority in this region. 
 

The city region have done a devolution deal with the government and the devolved funding includes transport. Whether the priorities include tram extensions will be down to mayoral priorities and whether funding can be identified. 
 

Remember that tram lines take probably 10 years to plan and maybe 5 years to build, so it isn’t an easy or quick fix. Nottingham’s two new lines cost them £170m each, so by the time you get spades in the ground here, it would be £200m+ per line. 
 

Nottingham are part funding theirs through a Workplace Parking Levy (WPL). This is a tax on employers ( of 11 people or more) who provide parking spaces for employees. The charge is £424 per space and some employers ( including the council) pass it on to employees. 
 

Nottingham raise £10m per annum through this which helps them develop new tram lines and leverages borrowing to pay for them. They also pay for sustainable travel initiatives with it like grants to small companies for cycle facilities, workplace travel planning, free electric buses in city centre etc. This is something that is on SCC’s radar to help pay for new lines here.
 

To my knowledge, the places which they were looking to serve would be Advanced Manufacturing Park / Waverley and Northern General Hospital.

 

Expensive new infrastructure like that will have to help deliver regional economic priorities, spatial planning priorities and transport priorities. These nowadays tend to focus on “clean” economic growth, improving access to jobs and training /education opportunities for deprived areas,  enabling new employment, and housing development,  addressing the climate emergency. 
 

It has also always been a problem politically in the region that the tram only served Sheffield. The recent tram train extension has started to address that issue. Therefore extensions which connect the other city region towns to the tram network are perhaps most likely to find favour. A line to AMP which connects to Sheffield and Rotherham would tick this box.

Edited by Planner1

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33 minutes ago, Bigal1 said:

Have you not read the fine words of our Mayor in his so called transport strategy published 18 months ago below are a few quotes from it

 

"I will invest in tram, tram-train,
bus rapid transit, bus networks, active travel
and tackle our congestion hotspots."

 

Supertram renewal.
• Extend tram/tram-train coverage across the Sheffield City Region.

 

and

 

NEXT STEPS:
In 2019 we will publish a regional transport strategy and develop an implementation plan which sets out how we
intend to achieve the ambitions described in this vision document. Detailed options for the delivery and funding
of individual projects will be brought forward and considered on a case-by-case basis.

 

Not seen any further up date as was promised

Lets see what happens. The last BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) was a joke in its initial design, and its implementation.  It started out as 2 separate routes from....... You guessed it  Sheffield to Rotherham. It finished up being a stretch of road from nowhere to nowhere that to justify its expense was then opened to all traffic and some "priority" measures that slow the buses down. The service on it has been gradually wound down to the level it needs and now under covid 19 has just about got it right. The tram train has hardly been a major success. If you look at patronage on the exclusive section ( meadowhall to Parkgate) it is very low on the majority of Journeys.

As for the tram system, It would benefit from inteligent expansion but on street running as has been shown in the majority of areas is not the answer.

13 hours ago, Longcol said:

I'd love to see the tram network extended but who is going to pay for it? The council has nothing like the money it had back in 1990.

They didnt have the money then and it never stopped them

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Based upon the experiences of the Tram-Train experiment, Cross Rail and HS2 (currently) I wonder what the overrun on £1.5bn will be, never mind timescale overruns?

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Bus driver1

 

"The tram train has hardly been a major success. If you look at patronage on the exclusive section ( meadowhall to Parkgate) it is very low on the majority of Journeys".

 

Not just that some of the tram trains are scheduled immediately behind a yellow tram or immediately in front meaning there are no passengers to pick up along most of the route

 

"As for the tram system, It would benefit from inteligent expansion"

 

No hope then

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Bigal1 said:

Bus driver1

 

"The tram train has hardly been a major success. If you look at patronage on the exclusive section ( meadowhall to Parkgate) it is very low on the majority of Journeys".

 

Not just that some of the tram trains are scheduled immediately behind a yellow tram or immediately in front meaning there are no passengers to pick up along most of the route

 

"As for the tram system, It would benefit from inteligent expansion"

 

No hope then

you couldn't make it up could you.

just a recap, do you remember the sevenstone project

has anyone been shopping in the sevenstone quarter yet?

no I didn't think so and that's been at least 20 years in the making.

so I wouldn't hold my breath till the new station approach is done.

 

Edited by MICK BADGER

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22 minutes ago, MICK BADGER said:

you couldn't make it up could you.

just a recap, do you remember the sevenstone project

has anyone been shopping in the sevenstone quarter yet?

no I didn't think so and that's been at least 20 years in the making.

so I wouldn't hold my breath till the new station approach is done.

 

Is it a while since you’ve been to town? Or did you miss the massive redevelopment going on in what was the area of the sevenstone development?

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4 hours ago, MICK BADGER said:

you couldn't make it up could you.

 

The tram-train service is a trial ( essentially by the government) to see how that type of vehicle performs in a scheduled service on heavy rail track and tram track and what effects the vehicle has on the tracks. The success or failure is not about how many people use it, it’s about finding out whether those vehicles are suitable for wider usage around the country. 

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