Tough On Crime?

[Baron99 778]

Reading today that in response to a written question from Conservative MP, Philip Davies, the Ministry of Justice revealed that the average man given a gaol sentence of less than 6 months had in fact committed on average 56 offences, resulting in convictions or cautions before they were eventually gaoled.  For women it was an average of 60 previous offences. 

 

One offender actually carried out 93 different crimes before being sent to gaol for the first time. 

 

Over the years we had "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" & "Three strikes & you're out", from both main political Parties. 

 

From looking at the average number of offence committed before a custodial sentence is imposed, apparently we've been lied to for a few decades now. 

 

Also given the fact the figures appear to  indicate that offenders are given a large number of cautions or community sentences before they are gaoled for the first time, it appears these more lenient sentencing methods aren't working? 

 

 

[L00b 441]

'Tough on crime' is nothing more than politically-expedient virtue signalling.

 

I think that you need to look at the state of the UK criminal justice system to begin with.

 

I would suggest The Secret Barrister (recent book, articles and/or Twitter, take your pick).

 

Then you might reflect on the latest political news today, according to which your Home Secretary bullies her staff to act beyond legality, as symptomatic of the problem at source.

[Baron99 778]

28 minutes ago, L00b said:

'Tough on crime' is nothing more than politically-expedient virtue signalling.

 

I think that you need to look at the state of the UK criminal justice system to begin with.

 

I would suggest The Secret Barrister (recent book, articles and/or Twitter, take your pick).

 

Then you might reflect on the latest political news today, according to which your Home Secretary bullies her staff to act beyond legality, as symptomatic of the problem at source.

Yes I've heard that about her as well.  She does appear to be a bit of a smiling assasin. 

 

If she was a little bloke, you probably say 'Napoleon Syndrome'?  A bit like Bercow. 

 

Wonder what the female equivalent is? 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Baron99

[El Cid 212]

2 hours ago, Baron99 said:

Over the years we had "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" & "Three strikes & you're out", from both main political Parties.

That rule does not mean here, what it means in the USA!

From 1999, burglars convicted of breaking into private homes three times will be sentenced to a minimum of three years in jail. If you look at the original post, at would be at least 50 burglaries before they were caught, then a further 100 before it was the 'third strike'.

Its a daft rule, just let the judges he harder on persistant criminals. Jail does not work, they need to be educated so that they can get work when released.

[Baron99 778]

42 minutes ago, El Cid said:

That rule does not mean here, what it means in the USA!

From 1999, burglars convicted of breaking into private homes three times will be sentenced to a minimum of three years in jail. If you look at the original post, at would be at least 50 burglaries before they were caught, then a further 100 before it was the 'third strike'.

Its a daft rule, just let the judges he harder on persistant criminals. Jail does not work, they need to be educated so that they can get work when released.

From  a Guardian story, Jack Straw in 1999; "At the moment burglars convicted for a third time can expect a sentence of around 19 months. But one fifth are not sent to jail. 

 

Home secretary Jack Straw said: "Burglary is a sickening crime and having one's home violated by an intruder can be a terrifying experience. I am determined to ensure that the courts have at their disposal the power to deal with persistent burglars. People need to know that criminals who make a living from housebreaking will face a period of imprisonment which reflects their crime."

 

Well clearly it was never fully followed through by Labour & looking at my initial post, the time spent in power by the recognised Party of 'Law & order' the Conservatives, doesn't appear to have changed or reduced re-offending rates either?

 

You reckon that gaol doesn't work?  Well neither does treating persistant offender with  continous community orders & cautions then letting them back out on the streets. 

 

Better to lock them up & ENSURE that they get some education / rehabilitation / work experience while inside, while at the same time preventing them from carrying on committing crimes in the outside  world. 

 

Last I heard, the UK had a prison population of about 85,000?  Out of of population of 65 million I don't consider this that bad bit to some it's some sort of sad indictment?  Why? Cearly we should be locking more up. 

 

In the last few days on tv, I've seen cctv of some low life trying to rob a 70 year old, (who not only stood up to the coward), at a cash point; then yesterday on a report of someone trying to push their way into the home of a 102 year old & his 97 year old wife.  I'll bet a pound to a penny, the two criminals are repeat offenders who have previously has cautions?  

 

On a separate but related note, I've never understood why Sheffield, as a city, has never had its own gaol?

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Baron99

[El Cid 212]

22 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

You reckon that gail doesn't work?  Well neither does treating persistant offender with  continous community orders & cautions then letting them back out on the streets. 

 

Better to lock them up & ENSURE that they get some education / rehabilitation / work experience while inside, while at the same time preventing them from carrying on committing crimes in the outside  world.

I agree. At their first offence, when they will NOT go to jail. Tell them to learn 2 GCSE/NVQs(and help them to acheive them) or next time they will be locked up and wont be released untill they have done them.

It wouldnt work for every offender, of course.

[Brooker11 10]

Crime is absolutely out of control particularly things like breaking and entering, I got shot down in flames for saying this on another thread.

[bassett one 449]

we need to sentence them and only if they go to education or learn a trade  5 days a week and they conform they get a reduction on there sentence,but the problem is some do people may say that's not right,plus we cannot do it as we lock them up 23 hours a day,but this could be a idea,FARMS HAVE A SHORTAGE of workers,so why not give them a farm job,for a small wage and hope they will fill the short fall of our exit of foreign labour on leaving prison and become decent people again.

[kidley 48]

2 hours ago, bassett one said:

we need to sentence them and only if they go to education or learn a trade  5 days a week and they conform they get a reduction on there sentence,but the problem is some do people may say that's not right,plus we cannot do it as we lock them up 23 hours a day,but this could be a idea,FARMS HAVE A SHORTAGE of workers,so why not give them a farm job,for a small wage and hope they will fill the short fall of our exit of foreign labour on leaving prison and become decent people again.

you mean cheap labour, you will have the farmers union going crazy, teaching them a trade sounds all well and good then, after they have learnt there trade, they can come out and cut through three foot of concrete and steal untold millions from safety boxes  

 Read into this what you will, a first timer in prison will undoubtably come out of prison more skilled in his/her chosen profession. 

 

 

[Phili Buster 10]

14 hours ago, kidley said:

you mean cheap labour, you will have the farmers union going crazy, teaching them a trade sounds all well and good then, after they have learnt there trade, they can come out and cut through three foot of concrete and steal untold millions from safety boxes  

 Read into this what you will, a first timer in prison will undoubtably come out of prison more skilled in his/her chosen profession. 

 

 

We currently have some employers complaining about the future lack of low cost EU migrant labour. Perhaps there could be a solution here.

 

BBC Radio Sheffield report that "Bassan Khan, aged 19, who attacked a youth worker in South View Road, Sheffield, during a weekend of violence last Easter, was given a two and a half year prison sentence for S18 Wounding and Possession of an offensive weapon, earlier this week." .  

 

I do not class that sentence as being 'Tough On Crime"!   Especially when he will not serve that time and will most likely be loose on the streets in under a year and a half.

 

What happened to the four year sentences for just carrying a knife, never mind using one?

[catmiss 12]

Did anyone see the Channel 4 programme ‘Keeping them out of Prison’ on Wednesday this week? Interesting scheme but labour intensive and would need intensive funding although probably less than cost of prison per person. Claim much lower reoffending rates