Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Organgrinder 1,946]

1 hour ago, Litotes said:

But why did you think that?

 

If it were shown that the reasons you voted to leave were based on a series of fallacies and lies, and that those who promoted the leave party are in fact financially benefiting from the leave vote while at the same time, leaving the country, and investing in Europe would you not question your logic at voting leave?

I and the rest of the leave voters were and are entitled to think what we like despite it upsetting you.

I have already made clear that my wishes to leave were not based on what anyone else said - I think for myself.

There were lies on both sides and I am old enough to expect that when any politician speaks, some of it will be lies and others will be concealed truths.

I don't question my logic at all.  I wanted to leave and, after the way the negotiations have gone, I still want to leave even more so.

I could never call that scheming, grabbing,  lot friends?

[Litotes 63]

So, can you please articulate why you think it was better to leave?

 

You are obviously one of those who wasn't taken in by the lies of Farage, Rees-Mogg or Johnson.

 

It is just that I still cannot understand what the benefit of leaving is and would like to be informed, nay, swayed by those who have weighed the benefits in their own heads (not influenced by lies or falsehoods) and come out on the leave side.

 

But... I still ask;

 

If it were shown that the reasons you voted to leave were based on a series of fallacies and lies, would you not question your logic at voting leave?

 

[Organgrinder 1,946]

1 hour ago, Litotes said:

So, can you please articulate why you think it was better to leave?

 

You are obviously one of those who wasn't taken in by the lies of Farage, Rees-Mogg or Johnson.

 

It is just that I still cannot understand what the benefit of leaving is and would like to be informed, nay, swayed by those who have weighed the benefits in their own heads (not influenced by lies or falsehoods) and come out on the leave side.

 

But... I still ask;

 

If it were shown that the reasons you voted to leave were based on a series of fallacies and lies, would you not question your logic at voting leave?

 

I have stated my reasons for the way I voted over & over again.

1 - I wanted Britain's Sovereignty to be restored so that we make all our own laws, rules, etc and we are the ones who police them with no foreign court having greater powers than ours.

       When Europe votes to change anything, how much weight do you think we carry with 27 other nations voting - very little.

2 - I want us to be in sole charge of our borders and immigration policies.  I don't want Europe telling us who can come into our country whether we like it or not.

3 - I want us to be able make our own trade deals without Europe being able to stop us and block them.

4 - I want us to stop paying in many millions more than we get back and let them learn that money doesn't grow on trees when they work their budget out.

5 - I want to be out of European defence arguments whereby we are the only nation in Europe that pays the minimum of 2% of gdp on defence.

6 - I want us to stop changing things because we are members of Europe and they have a different way.   Weights, measures, distances, money as when we went decimal. etc.

       All things which we had to change to be part of Europe.

Europes intention has always been to form a United States of Europe and I don't want to be in any United States.

That's just for starters and if you cannot understand the benefits I don't expect to sway you and certainly won't try.

Nobody will show me that the way I voted was based on anything other than my own personal feelings and  nobody is going to change my mind.

In my own head, my logic beats yours and that's the way it will stay.

I was happy to be in a trading partnership as we were when we first joined Europe but I WILL NOT accept Europes rules & laws from a European Court.

I also think that our own Governments should be banned by law from signing away our powers as they have done in the past.

To be clear - I AM NOT a fan of eitherJohnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg, Starmer or Trump so none of them could sway me into anything.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Organgrinder

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

I have stated my reasons for the way I voted over & over again.

1 - I wanted Britain's Sovereignty to be restored so that we make all our own laws, rules, etc and we are the ones who police them with no foreign court having greater powers than ours.

       When Europe votes to change anything, how much weight do you think we carry with 27 other nations voting - very little.

2 - I want us to be in sole charge of our borders and immigration policies.  I don't want Europe telling us who can come into our country whether we like it or not.

3 - I want us to be able make our own trade deals without Europe being able to stop us and block them.

4 - I want us to stop paying in many millions more than we get back and let them learn that money doesn't grow on trees when they work their budget out.

5 - I want to be out of European defence arguments whereby we are the only nation in Europe that pays the minimum of 2% of gdp on defence.

6 - I want us to stop changing things because we are members of Europe and they have a different way.   Weights, measures, distances, money as when we went decimal. etc.

       All things which we had to change to be part of Europe.

Europes intention has always been to form a United States of Europe and I don't want to be in any United States.

That's just for starters and if you cannot understand the benefits I don't expect to sway you and certainly won't try.

Nobody will show me that the way I voted was based on anything other than my own personal feelings and  nobody is going to change my mind.

In my own head, my logic beats yours and that's the way it will stay.

I was happy to be in a trading partnership as we were when we first joined Europe but I WILL NOT accept Europes rules & laws from a European Court.

I also think that our own Governments should be banned by law from signing away our powers as they have done in the past.

To be clear - I AM NOT a fan of eitherJohnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg, Starmer or Trump so none of them could sway me into anything.

 

1. That's not changing.

2. Myth 

3. Why do you think we'll get a better deal on our own? We didn't with Japan.

4. Wrong, but I can at least see the argument. The EU isn't cheap.

5. Still happy to go into illegal wars with the US then presumably. Number of wars the EU started? None. And we'll still lend the French helicopters etc in Mali. It's shared equipment.

6. We've been metric - like the rest of the world - FOR DECADES.  It's easy. LET IT GO. I'd also guess your retired?

 

Not sure if we had to change to metric to be part of Europe but would be happy to proved wrong.

[Longcol 602]

24 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Not sure if we had to change to metric to be part of Europe but would be happy to proved wrong.

I think it was because the "new fangled" machines like computers and calculators worked in metric.

[Organgrinder 1,946]

9 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

1. That's not changing.

2. Myth 

3. Why do you think we'll get a better deal on our own? We didn't with Japan.

4. Wrong, but I can at least see the argument. The EU isn't cheap.

5. Still happy to go into illegal wars with the US then presumably. Number of wars the EU started? None. And we'll still lend the French helicopters etc in Mali. It's shared equipment.

6. We've been metric - like the rest of the world - FOR DECADES.  It's easy. LET IT GO. I'd also guess your retired?

 

Not sure if we had to change to metric to be part of Europe but would be happy to proved wrong.

1. You are wrong

2. You are wrong again - all the truths are changed into myths by unhappy leavers

3. I never said we would get a better deal on our own - don't put words into my mouth.

4. No - You are wrong again

5. You are wrong again - Not only was I against the illegal wars with the US but I spent many hours writing and complaining about this including to Westminster

      and I have aways maintained that Blair & Bush should be put on trial for that and laws put into place to stop future Prime Ministers from lying to us.

6. We went Metric for Europe and I don't care how many decades ago that was - we had our previous system for far more years than that.

     My maths are good but I don't care how easy it is, I dont like it and I refuse even more to like it at your orders. I refuse to be told what to do  by anyone  such as you.

 

If you want to pick holes in my statements then feel free but, if you alter the truth to do it, then everyone knows, as I do, that you are losing the discussion.

[Organgrinder 1,946]

The new fangled machines like computers are not that new and they don't work in metric.

They work in Binary and can present their answers in any format or language you like.

[Pettytom 1]

2 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

The new fangled machines like computers are not that new and they don't work in metric.

They work in Binary and can present their answers in any format or language you like.

Anyone who has ever studied any science at all will be able to appraise you of the advantages of metrification and the adoption of SI. 
 

But hey, let’s keep the greengrocers happy.

[tinfoilhat 11]

8 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

1. You are wrong

2. You are wrong again - all the truths are changed into myths by unhappy leavers

3. I never said we would get a better deal on our own - don't put words into my mouth.

4. No - You are wrong again

5. You are wrong again - Not only was I against the illegal wars with the US but I spent many hours writing and complaining about this including to Westminster

      and I have aways maintained that Blair & Bush should be put on trial for that and laws put into place to stop future Prime Ministers from lying to us.

6. We went Metric for Europe and I don't care how many decades ago that was - we had our previous system for far more years than that.

     My maths are good but I don't care how easy it is, I dont like it and I refuse even more to like it at your orders. I refuse to be told what to do  by anyone  such as you.

 

If you want to pick holes in my statements then feel free but, if you alter the truth to do it, then everyone knows, as I do, that you are losing the discussion.

1. We are not leaving the European court of human rights.

2. Umpteen threads and thousands of posts, I'll dig out the links. Again.

3. So you voted to get worse deals then? Ok.

4. Sort of agreed with you you and I'm still wrong?

5.  We will still follow the US into wars. I don't envisage the EU starting many but we'll share equipment with our EU allies regardless. Most are in NATO anyway.

6. Don't like it then. It's been taught in schools for 40 years, it's used in business in every country in the world apart from the US, Liberia and Myanmar. But you stand in b and q take the the time and work it back, I don't care.

[Organgrinder 1,946]

1 minute ago, Pettytom said:

Anyone who has ever studied any science at all will be able to appraise you of the advantages of metrification and the adoption of SI. 
 

But hey, let’s keep the greengrocers happy.

Well, I agree it's a bit easier for those who are slow and yes, the greengrocers were as miffed as me so I concur,

[Pettytom 1]

12 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Well, I agree it's a bit easier for those who are slow and yes, the greengrocers were as miffed as me so I concur,

Nothing to do with being slow.

 

Those who are fast will much prefer a system in base 10, rather than one based on  nonsense.

 

I guess it depends upon the demands of the maths in your job. For me, psi, collops,  ergs and dynes belong in the bin.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Pettytom

[Organgrinder 1,946]

14 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

1. We are not leaving the European court of human rights.

2. Umpteen threads and thousands of posts, I'll dig out the links. Again.

3. So you voted to get worse deals then? Ok.

4. Sort of agreed with you you and I'm still wrong?

5.  We will still follow the US into wars. I don't envisage the EU starting many but we'll share equipment with our EU allies regardless. Most are in NATO anyway.

6. Don't like it then. It's been taught in schools for 40 years, it's used in business in every country in the world apart from the US, Liberia and Myanmar. But you stand in b and q take the the time and work it back, I don't care.

1. Whether we leave the Court of human rights is still open until December the 31st because Boris originally said that we would and you know what he's like for making a decision.

Out of my hands anyway so no good having a go at me.

2. Don't know what your referring to but dig away.

3. I consider it's hard to get deals worse than Europe's but I can vote how I want anyway.

4. Trying a bit too hard there - I say where I stand and take it or leave it.

5. We wouldn't follow anyone into a war if I was in charge - what's that got to do with leaving Europe?

6.  Good, If you don't care then why are you complaining. should be everyone happy at last.

5 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

Nothing to do with being slow.

 

Those who are fast will much prefer a system in base 10, rather than one based on  nonsense.

 

I guess it depends upon the demands of the maths in your job. For me, psi, ergs and dynes belong in the bin.

I'm just saying what I prefer - because I was pulled on that.

Other people can decide what they like and it's nothing to do with me.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Organgrinder