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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

Vaati

Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute.

 

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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11 hours ago, Pettytom said:

What could we possibly do instead?

Reduce crossborder trading to nothing?

 

A pragmatic, business-oriented solution that eschews much of the costs forecast under policies prompted by the UK's ongoing cultural shift.

 

Unsurprisingly therefore... ;)

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4 hours ago, Car Boot said:

No. There will be no hard border in Ireland. If the EU imposes one it will be torn down. Thatcher's Single Market is simply not important.

For the UK, it's about the Internal Market...

 

...which can't be protected if goods are allowed to flow in freely from another jurisdiction.

 

It's incumbent for both sides to protect their markets.

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In other news Nissan and Toyota are asking the government for compo if they have to pay tariffs.

 

They won't get it.

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22 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

In other news Nissan and Toyota are asking the government for compo if they have to pay tariffs.

 

They won't get it.

I wouldn't be so sure, costs seem to be irrelevant to this government compared to optics.

 

Brexit is already a costly disaster, not a good look for a Brexiteer government when it gets much much worse.

 

Pretty sure it'd be classed as state-aid though, so the likes of the USA will most definitely object. In the end it'll cost more than it saves.

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5 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Pretty sure it'd be classed as state-aid though, so the likes of the USA will most definitely object. In the end it'll cost more than it saves.

I personally think this talk of stateaid is nonsense.  State aid would be allow as a transition phase. If any Government wanted to give favouritism to any bussiness, surely they could just lower the tax they they pay to the government?

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Here's an example of state aid that HMG might think a worthwhile investment. In this instance the UK should be able to decide if it wants to commit funds to a project. If the EU has a veto on UK internal policy it could simply refuse permission to the UK while making special state aid exemption rules for its own competing interests. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/10/04/uks-gigafactory-dream-could-fall-without-change-state-aid-rules/

 

Quote

A £1.2bn project to build Britain's first 'gigafactory' to supply electric batteries for the UK car industry could unravel without changes to UK state aid rules, according to the company's chief executive.

Orral Nadjari heads up Britishvolt, which is close to submitting formal applications to build a so-called ‘gigafactory’ at two potential sites in South Wales and southwest England.

The scheme, which could create 3,500 jobs, could prove critical to plans to protect the industry after Brexit as the UK aims to phase out all sales of petrol and diesel vehicles by 2035.

But Mr Nadjari said changes to UK state aid rules are essential to ensure the viability of the scheme, which is competing directly with a string of big projects in the European Union. Unlike Britishvolt, these are receiving generous government funding and support packages worth hundreds of millions of pounds.

 

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26 minutes ago, Tony said:

Here's an example of state aid that HMG might think a worthwhile investment. In this instance the UK should be able to decide if it wants to commit funds to a project. If the EU has a veto on UK internal policy it could simply refuse permission to the UK while making special state aid exemption rules for its own competing interests. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/10/04/uks-gigafactory-dream-could-fall-without-change-state-aid-rules/

The EU is planning to allow state aid for electric battery research and will offer billions of euros of co-funding to companies willing to build giant battery factories... so, he would... wouldn't he :rolleyes:

 

The mandatory (these days) Brexit irony...

 

Elon Musk stated that the previously announced Tesla R&D centre to be built in the UK, and any possibility of building Teslas Gigafactory in the UK...

 

....went south because of Brexit!

 

Both went to Germany.

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

Here's an example of state aid that HMG might think a worthwhile investment. In this instance the UK should be able to decide if it wants to commit funds to a project. If the EU has a veto on UK internal policy it could simply refuse permission to the UK while making special state aid exemption rules for its own competing interests. 

That would be a situation borne from the EU27's leverage in trade negotiations over the UK, created solely by the UK's deliberate choice to set itself up as competition to the EU27. 

 

Why should the UK should expect a free lunch from the EU27? 

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15 minutes ago, L00b said:

That would be a situation borne from the EU27's leverage in trade negotiations over the UK, created solely by the UK's deliberate choice to set itself up as competition to the EU27. 

 

Why should the UK should expect a free lunch from the EU27? 

Why should it indeed. You have a very good point and well made at that.

 

Competition is very healthy, as Spanish onion growers (et al) will find out when many of the UK's worldwide tariffs are reduced down to zero from the current puniative rate for imports outside the EU. (10% for onions ISTR) . I hear that Zimbabwe is sorting out it's farm situation, so it might be African onions served with your Brazilian beef (currently 13% ?).

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24 minutes ago, Tony said:

Why should it indeed. You have a very good point and well made at that.

 

Competition is very healthy, as Spanish onion growers (et al) will find out when many of the UK's worldwide tariffs are reduced down to zero from the current puniative rate for imports outside the EU. (10% for onions ISTR) . I hear that Zimbabwe is sorting out it's farm situation, so it might be African onions served with your Brazilian beef (currently 13% ?).

Brextremist supporting farmers wont be happy

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57 minutes ago, Tony said:

Why should it indeed. You have a very good point and well made at that.

 

Competition is very healthy, as Spanish onion growers (et al) will find out when many of the UK's worldwide tariffs are reduced down to zero from the current puniative rate for imports outside the EU. (10% for onions ISTR) . I hear that Zimbabwe is sorting out it's farm situation, so it might be African onions served with your Brazilian beef (currently 13% ?).

I'm sure Zimbabwean onions would be perfectly fine for consumption, and they'd likely be cheaper to produce than Spanish ones :)

 

Since that hypothetical zero tariff base would apply to onions from <wherever> (WTO MFN says), then it'd be down to wether Tesco & the like can get them landed in the UK from Zimbabwe, cheap enough to maintain that cost differential, or whether Spanish (or still others) are still in with a shout after freight is factored in (plus the importing red tape: don't forget that new importing red tape, 10% or 0% tariffs irrespective...someone's got to pay for it, and it won't Spaniards or Zimbabwean onion producers).

 

Given that free-for-all access to UK food shelves granted to <the world> under the logic of your post, then may the most competitive producers of fresh foodstuffs win, indeed.

 

But that state aid thing, about making EV batteries <or whatever> with a forest's worth of taxpayer money trees? Still no ;)

Edited by L00b

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1 hour ago, melthebell said:

Brextremist supporting farmers wont be happy

Indeed they won't, but I suspect they'll be unhappy no matter what happens now.

 

Still, they knew what they were voting for...

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