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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

Groose

Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute.

 

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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2 hours ago, tzijlstra said:

The European Court of Justice. 

 

'Oh, but we don't acknowledge that as a court'. 

 

No, you don't. But at the same time you expect the EU to be 'lenient' and 'flexible' towards the UK leaving.

 

Let me paint the obvious: The EU launching that court case wasn't to try and alter the UK's stance, it was to say: We have systems in place that you are flouting and we will start withdrawing the benefits you thought you were negotiating.

 

The UK is, and will always be, the smaller partner in the UK/EU trade and a grievous process to force a 'no deal' which is what the Government is trying, is going to be met by increased hostility. 

 

Now going back to that border - the EU doesn't want that border, it simply states that the interests of the EU have to be protected at any international border - the Republic and NI weren't going to have an international border. Johnson promised a 'fix' and the EU agreed to see what that fix would be, now there will be an international border as he has just withdrawn from that fix. What do you expect the EU to do, just sue the government at the ECJ or actually enforce the border agreement that Johnson is withdrawing from? A border agreement that the US and EU agreed to ensure peace in Ireland by the way. 

 

What is your response to the UK unilaterally blowing that agreement out of the water? Even if you don't acknowledge the ECJ, surely you acknowledge that the EU and the US are international entities of import to this nation?

The EU launching a court case against the UK?

 

When did this happen?

 

I thought the EU Commission had sent a formal letter of notice. I haven't heard anything about it launching a court case, which would be extremely legally premature.

 

The UK has until the end of this month to submit its observations to the letter of formal notice. 

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4 hours ago, tzijlstra said:

No, the EU don't want a hard border in Ireland, they have made very clear that they don't hence it was included in Johnson's 'deal' that he is now rescinding on. Hence they are suing the UK government to ensure that the agreement that was in place is kept in place. The fact that Johnson is prepared to pull the plug on that 'deal' shows that he doesn't care if there is a hard border in Ireland or not. 

 

Quite frankly, why should it bother him and his mates? That isn't where the bankers that they are trying to protect through Brexit are based. 

If the EU don't want a hard border in Ireland, why are they the only ones to have threatened it?

 

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier warned there will be a hard border in Northern Ireland if Brexit talks fail to end in a deal. Barnier said a hard border would be "inevitable" unless both sides struck an agreement before the December 31 deadline.

 

Nobody else has threatened the return of a hard border.

 

Not the British. Not the Irish. Just the EU.

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21 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

If the EU don't want a hard border in Ireland, why are they the only ones to have threatened it?

 

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier warned there will be a hard border in Northern Ireland if Brexit talks fail to end in a deal. Barnier said a hard border would be "inevitable" unless both sides struck an agreement before the December 31 deadline.

 

Nobody else has threatened the return of a hard border.

 

Not the British. Not the Irish. Just the EU.

What could we possibly do instead?

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1 hour ago, Car Boot said:

The EU launching a court case against the UK?

 

When did this happen?

 

I thought the EU Commission had sent a formal letter of notice. I haven't heard anything about it launching a court case, which would be extremely legally premature.

 

The UK has until the end of this month to submit its observations to the letter of formal notice. 

The letter of notification is the start of the legal process. What do you think your friends in the Government would reply? You expect them to repeal the Internal Market Bill? If they don't, there will be a precedent set whereby the UK screws over the Good Friday Agreement, don't you agree? I recall you saying you didn't care about Northern Ireland, or indeed the Scots - maybe you ought to apply some logic to what is going on. 

45 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

If the EU don't want a hard border in Ireland, why are they the only ones to have threatened it?

 

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier warned there will be a hard border in Northern Ireland if Brexit talks fail to end in a deal. Barnier said a hard border would be "inevitable" unless both sides struck an agreement before the December 31 deadline.

 

Nobody else has threatened the return of a hard border.

 

Not the British. Not the Irish. Just the EU.

No need to threaten it when the UK is withdrawing from the agreement that requires no hard border. 

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37 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

What could we possibly do instead?

wave the magic fairy wand...obviously tut

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47 minutes ago, tzijlstra said:

The letter of notification is the start of the legal process. What do you think your friends in the Government would reply? You expect them to repeal the Internal Market Bill? If they don't, there will be a precedent set whereby the UK screws over the Good Friday Agreement, don't you agree? I recall you saying you didn't care about Northern Ireland, or indeed the Scots - maybe you ought to apply some logic to what is going on. 

No need to threaten it when the UK is withdrawing from the agreement that requires no hard border. 

I have NEVER stated that I don't care about Northern Ireland or the  Scots. Indeed, I have argued against the return of a hard border in Ireland. I think if the Scots and the Northern Irish wish to leave the UK then they should be helped to do so. We will still be a family of nations, we don't need economic and political union for that. 

 

While they wish to remain in the UK they should be treated as full members - not part EU/part UK.

Edited by Car Boot

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2 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

I have NEVER stated that I don't care about Northern Ireland or the  Scots. Indeed, I have argued against the return of a hard border in Ireland. I think if the Scots and the Northern Irish wish to leave the UK then they should be helped to do so. We will still be a family of nations, we don't need economic and political union for that. 

 

While they wish to remain in the UK they should be treated as full members - not part EU/part UK.

Why - especially if, for example, an independent Scotland joined the EU?

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1 hour ago, Car Boot said:

I have NEVER stated that I don't care about Northern Ireland or the  Scots. Indeed, I have argued against the return of a hard border in Ireland. I think if the Scots and the Northern Irish wish to leave the UK then they should be helped to do so. We will still be a family of nations, we don't need economic and political union for that. 

 

While they wish to remain in the UK they should be treated as full members - not part EU/part UK.

So, how do you create an acceptable border between Northern Ireland and Ireland?

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3 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

So, how do you create an acceptable border between Northern Ireland and Ireland?

Good luck with that 😂

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2 minutes ago, whiteowl said:

Good luck with that 😂

It’s easy really.

 

You create a border between the two Irelands. That will protect our trading integrity and the EU’s. It is the only way to do that.

 

There might be a few complications though.

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8 hours ago, Longcol said:

Why - especially if, for example, an independent Scotland joined the EU?

Because we have a shared history and a shared People. Somethings are more important than a grubby trading bloc with pretensions of world domination.

 

6 hours ago, Pettytom said:

It’s easy really.

 

You create a border between the two Irelands. That will protect our trading integrity and the EU’s. It is the only way to do that.

 

There might be a few complications though.

No. There will be no hard border in Ireland. If the EU imposes one it will be torn down. Thatcher's Single Market is simply not important.

Edited by Car Boot

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1 hour ago, Car Boot said:

Because we have a shared history and a shared People. Somethings are more important than a grubby trading bloc with pretensions of world domination.

 

No. There will be no hard border in Ireland. If the EU imposes one it will be torn down. Thatcher's Single Market is simply not important.

It must be lovely to view things with such simplicity 

 

Meanwhile, in the real world, there is a difficult problem to solve. Caused entirely by Brexiters.

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