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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

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2 minutes ago, Tony said:

Well a good start is keeping quiet in public if you only have negative thoughts.  Maybe see a therapist*, or try to be open minded why other people have different opinions and might just be right... in fact they probably are right if you're feeling life-changingly miserable about the same thing.

 

 

* re' life in general, I'm not suggesting that Litotes needs a therapist.

No dissent allowed then?

 

Start of a slippery slope............................

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Just now, Longcol said:

No dissent allowed then?

 

Start of a slippery slope............................

But a slippery slope we are already seeing with Mr Boshambles taking away the democratic part of government by ruling by decree.

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

Well a good start is keeping quiet in public if you only have negative thoughts.  Maybe see a therapist*, or try to be open minded why other people have different opinions and might just be right... in fact they probably are right if you're feeling life-changingly miserable about the same thing.

 

 

* re' life in general, I'm not suggesting that Litotes needs a therapist.

It's not fighting, it's a Don Quixote impersonation. I'm doing Sancho Panza.

Perhaps you should take some of the same medicine - have you considered you might be wrong?

 

And to paraphrase a saying, if you don't worry about the crisis facing the UK with Brexit, you probably don't understand it

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Just now, Longcol said:

No dissent allowed then?

 

Start of a slippery slope............................

Oh god, yes, please dissent!!! Let's make it positive and relevant though. Use dissent to improve, refine, question... because fighting imaginary fights from battles lost in 2016 is just so boring and achieves nothing but perpetuating misery. It's excruciating - like watching Basil Fawlty serving dinner to Germans. 

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3 minutes ago, Litotes said:

But a slippery slope we are already seeing with Mr Boshambles taking away the democratic part of government by ruling by decree.

Perhaps you should take some of the same medicine - have you considered you might be wrong?

 

And to paraphrase a saying, if you don't worry about the crisis facing the UK with Brexit, you probably don't understand it

Wrong about what exactly? Right there you seem to have made a huge bunch of assumptions about what I think about a whole bunch of things - at a guess that I'm a stupid / thick / racist / nationalist / uneducated / etc Brexiteer. Maybe you're just wrong. Maybe I understand much more than you and you've got a dose of Dunning Kruger?  You can't possibly say, but we do know that you're so down about it that you're talking about your "exit strategy" like a beaten wife planning her suicide.

 

I'm not being personal here - it's your assertion a few posts up and presumably you posted it to be discussed. 

 

That's not a rational way to discuss a geopolitical change though. Sure Brexit  will alter how universities are funded and that might mean your career path would be different in different circumstances, but none of us should be so freaked out by personal change to think that extends to an entire nation state in a world setting. Yea, a few things are going to be different. Some better, some worse. BUT, and I don't need to tell you this, difference is where innovation comes from. Somebody with your background should surely welcome the opportunity for innovation at the mere expense of ridding the UK of the dead hand of EU protectionism politics. 

 

Perhaps you have some specific example I don't know about that you might change my mind with. I'm always open to new ideas so feel free if you like. 

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I have made no assumptions, and you are far off with your guesses.

 

Maybe you do understand so much more than me - quite possibly.

I find it interesting that you consider an exit strategy as akin to suicide rather than a pragmatic approach.

 

What is not a rational way to discuss a geopolitical change? Please be more specific.

 

Brexit will change how the whole country is funded.

 

So what is going to be better? You seem dead sure that some things will be, I am intrigued by your absolute certainty.

 

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38 minutes ago, Tony said:

I think, why do you so much want the UK to be the losing team?

 

but you, or anyone else for that matter, haven't offered anything to suggest that there is a winning strategy, perhaps at best a no score draw, at worst a 6-0 loss.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, andyofborg said:

but you, or anyone else for that matter, haven't offered anything to suggest that there is a winning strategy, perhaps at best a no score draw, at worst a 6-0 loss.

 

 

I'd say that's a one dimensional view. The economics aspect is important but so are the societal aspects.

 

The economic aspects are as yet unproven and I expect that in a few years time we'll all look back and think "was that all?" Time will tell. 

 

On society, that's already won by a large margin so long as there is no backsliding on sovereignty, ie that the EU has no oversight or legal jurisdiction over the UK and it's people.  UK democracy, such as can be is, is enhanced and protected. Again, time will tell but we will know by year end. 

 

The "winning strategy" as you call it, was for the UK to leave European Union. That's done. Won. Over. - subject to backsliding in an FTA.

Edited by Tony

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On 02/10/2020 at 20:33, Litotes said:

So because someone else did it  - that makes it ok for us to do it?

 

What a pathetic point of view.

 

What the UK is proposing to do is to break international law - not European law.

And actually - the UK broke international treaties many times before the EU did - so they are actually just following the lead of the UK...

As you so often point out - it is their law - but they can break it - they just move the goal posts in the same way the UK government is doing - so are we any better than they are???? Are they???

 

 

We need to gain respect from the international community, and what Mr Boshambles is doing will not get us that respect and so we won't get any good trade deal - just WTO ones - and so you, Mr CarBoot, and your negative beleaver cronies (for that is what they are) will doom the UK, and our sons and daughters, and their sons and daughters, to third world status, and penury dependent on hand outs from the rest of the world.

 

Your rose tinted glass view of the post-brexit world hasn't happened and from all evidence isn't going to happen. What happen then - will you say sorry?

 

Will you say "I was wrong" - we a\re already seeing the racist lying sexist cheat (aka Mr Boshambles) saying he misspoke (aka he was wrong), but will you?

 

Will you have the humility to do it?  I doubt it...

 

 

The UK can quietly ignore any Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) ruling, there is little the EU can do about it as it is a mickey mouse institution with wafer thin validity.

 

What is important is the need to protect the integrity of the UK's internal market - which means no de-facto border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the countries that make up the UK.

 

The UK internal market must ALWAYS takes precedence over the EU Single Market - a fact the EU will have to learn the hard way.

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21 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

The UK can quietly ignore any Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) ruling, there is little the EU can do about it as it is a mickey mouse institution with wafer thin validity.

 

What is important is the need to protect the integrity of the UK's internal market - which means no de-facto border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the countries that make up the UK.

 

The UK internal market must ALWAYS takes precedence over the EU Single Market - a fact the EU will have to learn the hard way.

What about the Good Friday agreement?

 

And what about the Japan trade deal? That’s got stricter restrictions on state aid than the prospective EU one. The communist utopia you’re after is further away now than it’s ever been.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178

34 minutes ago, Tony said:

I'd say that's a one dimensional view. The economics aspect is important but so are the societal aspects.

 

The economic aspects are as yet unproven and I expect that in a few years time we'll all look back and think "was that all?" Time will tell. 

 

On society, that's already won by a large margin so long as there is no backsliding on sovereignty, ie that the EU has no oversight or legal jurisdiction over the UK and it's people.  UK democracy, such as can be is, is enhanced and protected. Again, time will tell but we will know by year end. 

 

The "winning strategy" as you call it, was for the UK to leave European Union. That's done. Won. Over. - subject to backsliding in an FTA.

How do you think democracy is going now? Got to be honest I don’t think it’s going great. Unless you’ve been at dinner parties with ministers. Then it’s fantastic.

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1 hour ago, Litotes said:

Please don't be so condescending.

 

The UK has chosen to be on the losing team by believing the lies that were told to it during the campaign.

It also wants to continue to support a lying, mysogenistic racist, sexist cheat - and you expect someone who wasn't blinded by the false promises he has made throughout his career to support him?

He is no form of fit person to lead this country, a leader should be a role model - he is anything but!

 

When something happens in which you have a firm belief is the wrong thing - what should you do?

Give in, or fight for what you believe in?

 

You might want to roll over and make the best of a bad deal - but I would rather not have the bad deal in the first place and will keep fighting for what I believe in - and part of that fight will be to continue to highlight why the chosen path is the wrong one.

Keep fighting for what you believe in but then mentions an Exit Strategy? 

 

Essentially Not getting ones way so upping sticks and moving to another country.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178

How do you think democracy is going now? Got to be honest I don’t think it’s going great. Unless you’ve been at dinner parties with ministers. Then it’s fantastic.

Thanks for asking a good question TFH. I think it's going terribly. In fact I'm hopping mad about the lack of Parliamentary scrutiny and oversight as well as having no opposition party worthy of the name. The clock is ticking down on the current No 10 incumbents. 

 

The thing is though, we know it, we can see them and we can get rid of them if we decide we don't like them. So on the whole I'm pretty happy with the long term democratic prospects outside the EU. They are infinitely better than being a member.

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13 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

What about the Good Friday agreement?

 

And what about the Japan trade deal? That’s got stricter restrictions on state aid than the prospective EU one. The communist utopia you’re after is further away now than it’s ever been.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178

How do you think democracy is going now? Got to be honest I don’t think it’s going great. Unless you’ve been at dinner parties with ministers. Then it’s fantastic.

The only people who want a hard border in Ireland are the EU trading bloc fanatics to protect their precious Single Market.

 

Stuff the Single Market. Protect the UK Internal Market.

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